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re: Student loan debt just topped $1.52 trillion
Posted on 5/22/18 at 6:45 am to rivermonsters87
Posted on 5/22/18 at 6:45 am to rivermonsters87
It's a sham....I'd like yo see figures that show the unnecessary costs of the dumb fricking classes a college makes a freshman take that has nothing to do with their degree..basically the first year for a normal student, with all the math, history, philosophy, etc that are required but have little to do with their major
Let's take a simple business majir... they could damn near have their MBA in 4 years if their curriculum would start day 1
Let's take a simple business majir... they could damn near have their MBA in 4 years if their curriculum would start day 1
0
Posted on 5/22/18 at 6:47 am to rivermonsters87
quote:
They have made college inaccessible for the middle class. (As in, graduating without debt.)
Agree. And the student loan debt issue is going to stagnate our economy in the future if it doesn't get fixed soon.
But this is all a bunch of bull:
quote:
however, a degree does not change a persons intelligence. Many programs have lowered academic rigor in order to keep people who should have never been allowed in, in.
Link?
quote:
Most of our Universities care more about their football brand than student success.
There are almost 2500 universities (public and private) in the US. How many would you say actually care about their football brand? 100 at most? I'd say 50 are seriously putting any legit effort into their football brand, and even then, I'd argue that academics are still at the forefront of most of those schools. Football is simply a tool for recruiting students (simply look at the rankings and enrollment of the University of Alabama since Saban got there). It's also funded predominantly by booster money.
quote:
European students are scoring higher on intelligence tests than Americans but graduate with no debt. In Germany, only the brightest can enroll in college (for free) and only about 50% of them are able to graduate because of the challenges of the academic rigor. Germany doesn't mind paying the bill for the truly bright;however, will not waste money on people who should have never been admitted, like in the U.S.A.
Link for these intelligence tests? They might be scoring higher on them as US college students aren't asked to take standardized tests, which is a very good thing. There's no need to micromanage curricula for university professors as they've proven to be experts in their fields. As for Germany, they don't exactly have the reputation for the "land of the free and land of opportunity" like the US does. While I can agree that there are many students in college that probably shouldn't be there, I'd much prefer them to have the opportunity to pursue what they want to pursue rather than being tracked from childhood into a profession they don't want.
quote:
Many of the students, who should never have been admitted, are graduating with useless degrees and lack of program accreditation. The lack of their research into the program for which they enroll, suggests they should not be in college. What reform would you suggest in order to fix this problem? Trump seems to be ignoring it.
The "useless degrees" argument is growing tiresome.
From the NCES:
quote:
Of the 1,895,000 bachelor's degrees conferred in 2014–15, the greatest numbers of degrees were conferred in the fields of business (364,000), health professions and related programs (216,000), social sciences and history (167,000), psychology (118,000), biological and biomedical sciences (110,000), engineering (98,000), visual and performing arts (96,000), and education (92,000).
First off, the majority of degrees don't lead directly to one particular kind of job. University is not trade school. It's not about studying one skill that leads to a specific vocation. There are some that work that way (medical professions, engineering), but even then, a mechanical engineer for example could find himself working a number of jobs post-graduation that require professional development after being hired. Their postsecondary education is meant to diversify their way of thinking in order to help them be more creative, more critical, and more innovative in their fields.
I agree that most degrees are not worth $100k+ in debt in today's economy. However, the average number right now is ~$40k. It gives students the chance to pursue a career they are passionate about, which is much better for our society than sticking them somewhere they don't want to be. Further, most college graduates are not unemployed and college graduates earn on average $25k more than those with high school diplomas.
I don't know how to stop tuition from rising or how to solve the student loan debt issue. However, attacking students and attacking the value of a university education is certainly not the answer and features more erroneous claims than not.
*For-profit schools can go frick themselves.
This post was edited on 5/22/18 at 6:52 am
Posted on 5/22/18 at 6:52 am to HempHead
quote:
I'd like to see some university provide initially free tuition, and take a cut of a student's income for X amount of years and capped at a given number. This would incentivize colleges to actually give a shite about finding jobs for their customers.
Well this should be the idea behind university backed loans vs federally backed loans. The university should be on the hook for the loans. It will require them to actually invest in the students and their education. What we have now is a sham. The universities march people in and out and hand out degrees in nonsense. Students aren't required to learn anything, they're just required to remain in school so they can be charged tuition. Tuition paid by student loans. Loans that will be paid back no matter what happens to the student after graduation.
Posted on 5/22/18 at 7:02 am to rivermonsters87
quote:
Yes, I have a degree and currently, working on an M.B.A; however, I found ways to do it without getting into debt i.e. military. Unfortunately, many Americans are not considering alternatives to student loans. Honestly, the only people who should have student loan debt should be Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers etc., not history, business and arts majors.
I joined the military, served my time, got two degrees no debt. 9 years of service.
This SHOULD be the option for people. Outside of serving your country, you grow the hell up quick.
Posted on 5/22/18 at 7:23 am to stuntman
quote:
If government stopped giving loans and grants, tuition costs would plummet, dumb/useless classes would be dropped, and actual education, not indoctrination, would flourish.
This. Just like low mortgage rates raised home prices to historic levels.
Posted on 5/22/18 at 7:33 am to rivermonsters87
It’s mostly market driven, because a degree does give you better job prospects if you pick a marketable major.
One problem is for-profit institutions and/or choosing low-paying fields of study.
The other problem is; 4-year college just isn’t for everyone. There’s no shame in learning a trade, but this option is often overlooked.
One problem is for-profit institutions and/or choosing low-paying fields of study.
The other problem is; 4-year college just isn’t for everyone. There’s no shame in learning a trade, but this option is often overlooked.
Posted on 5/22/18 at 7:50 am to Eli Goldfinger
This thread is just a shitload of over-generalizations.
Do some people go to college that should not? Yes
Are some degrees worthless? Yes
Do undergraduate degrees help with careers? Yes
Drop the staw man bullshite.
Do some people go to college that should not? Yes
Are some degrees worthless? Yes
Do undergraduate degrees help with careers? Yes
Drop the staw man bullshite.
Posted on 5/22/18 at 8:21 am to stuntman
quote:
Demand is high because government is giving out loans like candy to almost anyone who wants one.
If government stopped giving loans and grants, tuition costs would plummet, dumb/useless classes would be dropped, and actual education, not indoctrination, would flourish.
First reply! Well done sir.
Posted on 5/22/18 at 8:36 am to Pecker
quote:
That's assuming there's no bailout.
It worked witg the housing crisis. Its not like anyone suffered there.
Posted on 5/22/18 at 8:50 am to Aubie Spr96
Posted on 5/22/18 at 8:51 am to stuntman
I contributed to the debt decreasing last week. Made a nice big lump payment to bring my balance to 0.
Posted on 5/22/18 at 9:37 am to TimeOutdoors
Posted on 5/22/18 at 9:45 am to rivermonsters87
quote:That's a lot of hours to be worked at Starbux for the SJW crew with that important B.A. in Gender Identity Neutral Ethnic & Cultural Relations Studies degree.
$1.52 trillion
Posted on 5/22/18 at 9:46 am to rivermonsters87
quote:
Honestly, the only people who should have student loan debt should be Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers etc., not history, business and arts majors.
It's really starting to become questionable even for medicine and engineering.
Starting from the day you graduate high school to the day that you graduate from medical school, you will need anywhere from 300,000 (for a public college and medical school) to 500,000 (for a private college and medical school) for a job that will more than likely end up paying you $100,000-$175,000 a year pre-tax.
With regards to engineering, you're looking at running up anywhere between $100,000 (for a public college) to $250,000 (for a private one) for a job that will pay you $50,000-$60,000.
My recommendation for someone who is interested in those fields is to go to college in Europe, Canada, or Australia...finish your training and possibly come back (in the case of engineering) or stay there and practice (in the case of medicine).
The numbers are more favorable for vet school (****IF**** you can run your own animal hospital and employ other vets) or dentistry.
Don't know anything about law.
However we've really reached a tipping point where the default setting for most motivated, talented high school graduates should be to NOT consider going to college.
This post was edited on 5/22/18 at 9:48 am
Posted on 5/22/18 at 9:55 am to rivermonsters87
There are several forces at play and all are getting significantly worse under the present administrations in Washington and Baton Rouge.
1) State government is not financially supporting universities. The cost of operations has shifted almost entirely to the students. When I started at LSU, tuition was about $500 per semester. That was due to state funding which no longer exists. Loans are now needed because people can’t afford it.
2) The easy access to private lenders who encourage borrowing. The federal department of education is now run by people from the student loan business or the for profit education business. They are actively trying to dismantle public funding for education and universities to increase borrowing and profiteering on education.
3) Social pressure to go to college instead of the trades. Some shouldn’t go to college.
The first two are the most critical. Conservatives have to change their views about education or this serious problem will get much worse.
1) State government is not financially supporting universities. The cost of operations has shifted almost entirely to the students. When I started at LSU, tuition was about $500 per semester. That was due to state funding which no longer exists. Loans are now needed because people can’t afford it.
2) The easy access to private lenders who encourage borrowing. The federal department of education is now run by people from the student loan business or the for profit education business. They are actively trying to dismantle public funding for education and universities to increase borrowing and profiteering on education.
3) Social pressure to go to college instead of the trades. Some shouldn’t go to college.
The first two are the most critical. Conservatives have to change their views about education or this serious problem will get much worse.
Posted on 5/22/18 at 10:03 am to TBoy
quote:
Conservatives have to change their views about education or this serious problem will get much worse.
Interesting.
So you are saying conservatives created this mess?
Posted on 5/22/18 at 10:04 am to rivermonsters87
The schools and banks finally realized (some years ago, actually) that you can charge about anything for something seen as a necessary right of passage in this country.
I've said it before here, but the better route for HS grads is to learn a trade or something specialized outside of mainstream college. Instead of a generic business or arts degree from wahoo state that will saddle your arse with debt for 20+ years.
But just my $.02...
I've said it before here, but the better route for HS grads is to learn a trade or something specialized outside of mainstream college. Instead of a generic business or arts degree from wahoo state that will saddle your arse with debt for 20+ years.
But just my $.02...
This post was edited on 5/22/18 at 10:05 am
Posted on 5/22/18 at 10:05 am to stuntman
quote:
Demand is high because government is giving out loans like candy to almost anyone who wants one.
If government stopped giving loans and grants, tuition costs would plummet, dumb/useless classes would be dropped, and actual education, not indoctrination, would flourish.
This is, obviously, correct. It's clear that if half the students who now attend college weren't there colleges would have to lower prices to attract students.
Posted on 5/22/18 at 10:05 am to rivermonsters87
quote:
In Germany, only the brightest can enroll in college (for free) and only about 50% of them are able to graduate because of the challenges of the academic rigor.
An autocratic government working with a liberal university system to determine who gets to go to college is terrifying. This would quickly devolve into a system that grants access primarily based on one's skin color, sexual orientation, and illegal immigration status.
Posted on 5/22/18 at 10:05 am to TBoy
quote:
Conservatives have to change their views about education
What are their views?
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