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re: Succinct and accurate assessment of the state of things and American potential
Posted on 1/6/26 at 7:26 am to TrueTiger
Posted on 1/6/26 at 7:26 am to TrueTiger
quote:
That's a lot of words to say that we've rejected meritocracy.
That's a small part of it. There is some nativism, too, and an actually cogent criticism of a specific education policy. It's a lot of words, though. That's for sure.
0
Posted on 1/6/26 at 7:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Gifted kids don't need grade inflation if they're trying
They don’t, but what is the point if everyone gets an A? A is the most common grade given in the US. That doesn’t match with our reading and math scores.
Standardized testing for all its faults provides a way to look beyond grade inflation, but those are no longer required by many colleges and with all of the “extra time” kids is again inflated scores.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 7:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It's not, though. This is a function of populism and a big reason why I reject it. It's not a partisan issue
False. You must really suck if you cannot see how G/T expendatures and pushing some to trade school is targeting two different groups of kids.
Keep reaching though. From what I see, it is all you do.
BTW, you are lying. Funding for SPED =/= funding for G/T. G/T spending comes from one act only. SPED funding comes from another. I will not do your homework for you. You are supposed to be a lawyer. You should know law.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 7:31 am to GeauxBurrow312
quote:
They don’t, but what is the point if everyone gets an A
I'm a big fan of IQ tests and standardized tests to sort this out.
Grade inflation isn't new, either. 25 year ago when I was in high school doing an extracurricular at one of the bad schools they had a board with all of their top senior GPAs and their ACT scores and the highest was 21. I got that in 7th grade, so it was quite eye-opening.
And even Ivies were getting exposed for grade inflation at the time.
*ETA: I bring this up to note we have expanded our dominance over the rest of the world in this 25-ish years.
quote:
That doesn’t match with our reading and math scores.
Yea we have an underclass issue. The top are still the top and if you remove our underclass our scores rival/beat anyone's. That's also a flaw in the words in OP (specifically how he describes the impact in interest of our students and the laughable comment about Chinese kids studying trig 16 hours/day).
This post was edited on 1/6/26 at 7:35 am
Posted on 1/6/26 at 7:37 am to UtahCajun
quote:
You must really suck if you cannot see how G/T expendatures and pushing some to trade school is targeting two different groups of kids.
I'm discussing policy preferences. You're trying to pivot that into discussing the individual groups affected by the policy preferences.
Populism is a response to meritocracy, catered to help those left behind in a pure meritocracy. The 2 philosophies are in conflict.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:06 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I'm discussing policy preferences. You're trying to pivot that into discussing the individual groups affected by the policy preferences.
Populism is a response to meritocracy, catered to help those left behind in a pure meritocracy. The 2 philosophies are in conflict.
Whole lotta words. None of which address anything of value in the discussion. You should just leave it.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:10 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:SpEd runs 3-4x normal student cost. i.e., if normal cost +$10K/student/yr, SpEd runs $30K-$40K ($20K-$30K beyond the norm). Costs for gifted programs often approximate normal costs. Maybe they spend an extra $20-$30/student on honor roll certificates or achievement tests? So $20-$30 vs $20K-$30K or 1000-fold.
I'd like to see this data
It's not the strongest of his points, and obviously special needs can get expensive, so the comparison loses relevance. However, in terms of not putting our best foot forward, his points are indisputable.
This post was edited on 1/6/26 at 8:11 am
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:13 am to UtahCajun
quote:
Whole lotta words.
What?
quote:
None of which address anything of value in the discussion.
Describing the conflict in meritocracy and populism has no value in the discussion?
The entire gist of OP is trying (and doing a bad job) to make the argument, just without the introspection necessary for an objective analysis (by making it partisan).
He shows the flaws in his "analysis" by interjecting the nativism into the discussion, FWIW. He clearly doesn't want a meritocracy where brown people are able to do better than white people.
The one thing OP does fine is bring up the reading/phonics issue
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:13 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Is this the pivot when people say histrionic falsehoods?
Effectively, this renders everything else he said worthless for the same reasons, as I imagine it's all "hyperbole"
Perhaps he just Googled it, like this:
Hey google: "how much does the united states spend on gifted and talented programs"
Ai summary:
quote:
The United States spends relatively little on federal gifted and talented (G&T) programs, with the Jacob K. Javits Program often receiving around $12 million annually, equating to just a few dollars per identified student, while the bulk of funding falls to states and local districts, which varies widely, with many states providing insufficient or no dedicated funding, leaving programs dependent on local budgets. Total spending is fragmented, but federal funds are minimal compared to other education areas, often less than 1% of overall K-12 spending.
Federal Funding
Jacob K. Javits Gifted and Talented Education Program: This is the main federal source, often around $12 million annually, but this amount is small relative to national education spending.
Then, hey Google, "how much does the united states spend on special needs programs"
Ai summary:
quote:
The U.S. spends tens of billions annually on special needs, with federal IDEA funding for K-12 students around $15-17 billion, while total costs, including state/local funds and Medicaid for other disabilities, reach well over $100 billion, covering education, healthcare, and support services like $80+ billion for Intellectual & Developmental Disabilities (IDD) in 2021 and growing disability benefits, though exact total figures vary greatly by program.
Since he's making an X post and not submitting an academic paper for a grade or peer review, etc, googling for top line published numbers and running with the first result or even the AI summary as I just did is sufficient.
In this context, I see absolutely no histrionics and no reason to discredit him as you're implying might be appropriate. If his math is bad, its because he was too conservative and rounded down...
If you take the lower end of $15B (vs $17B) for special needs and divide by $12M, that's 1250x the amount spent on special needs vs gifted. If I (he) wanted to engage with histrionics, I might've gone with the $80B - $100B figures. Or I might've gone with the $268B the Dept of Ed spent in 2024 (per google) since the Dept of Ed has dumbed education down in general.
His post is an opinion in any case and not immune from being challenged, but your charge of histrionics and suggesting he isn't credible based on the reply of another in this thread is inherently more intellectually lazy and laced with histrionics than the X poster / OP.
:you lose, good day, sir:
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:14 am to prplngldtigr
Why do so many of you have such a low opinion of America? The USA is literally the envy of the world…
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:15 am to epbart
quote:
but your charge of histrionics and suggesting he isn't credible based on the reply of another
You wrote all that to confuse criticism of the X post with criticism of the defense of the X post by a post on here.
Just FYI.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:18 am to SlowFlowPro
EDIT: I should've put the key takeaway at the top.
?? Comparison at a Glance
Program Category Approx. Federal Annual Funding % of Federal K-12 Education Spending*
Special Education (IDEA + related) $15+ billion ~10%–12%+ of federal K-12 grants
Gifted & Talented (Javits) ~$16.5 million ~0.01%–0.02%
Here’s a clear breakdown of how much the U.S. federal government spends on special education programs versus gifted and talented programs — based on the most recent federal budget figures and analysis available:
???? 1. Special Education (Federal Spending)
Primary funding program:
Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) — the main federal special education funding stream.
FY2024–FY2025 funding levels:
Special education grants to states & districts: about $15.5 billion – $18.2 billion+ annually under IDEA and related special education appropriations.
U.S. Department of Education
+1
Department of Education data also notes roughly $15.5 billion of federal K-12 grant dollars were spent on special education in a recent fiscal year.
San
For perspective, in the overall federal Department of Education grant portfolio (~$150 billion total), special education is one of the largest individual K-12 categories (often second only to low-income/Title I funding).
Pew Research Center
Key points:
Special education funding is a major, ongoing federal commitment with dedicated statutory authority and formula grants.
Federal IDEA funding has historically not reached the 40 % cost share initially envisioned under the law – meaning states/localities still cover most of the expense.
National Education Association
?? 2. Gifted and Talented Education (Federal Spending)
Primary (and near-only) federal program:
Jacob K. Javits Gifted and Talented Education Act Grants
Funding levels:
In recent years, the Javits program has been allocated approximately $16.5 million annually.
Zoonop
+1
Relative scale:
That funding level amounts to roughly 0.01 %–0.02 % of total federal K-12 education funding.
Zoonop
Many federal budgets don’t have any other significant gifted education line items, meaning nearly all federal earmarks specifically for gifted programs come through Javits.
Important note:
Recent federal budget proposals would consolidate Javits into broader competitive funding pools rather than maintain it as a distinct line item, potentially making dedicated gifted funding even less visible.
Zoonop
?? Comparison at a Glance
Program Category Approx. Federal Annual Funding % of Federal K-12 Education Spending*
Special Education (IDEA + related) $15+ billion ~10%–12%+ of federal K-12 grants
Gifted & Talented (Javits) ~$16.5 million ~0.01%–0.02%
*Percentages are approximate and based on comparisons to total federal elementary & secondary education funding (which is often ~$120–130 billion range) rather than the entire Department of Education budget.
?? Comparison at a Glance
Program Category Approx. Federal Annual Funding % of Federal K-12 Education Spending*
Special Education (IDEA + related) $15+ billion ~10%–12%+ of federal K-12 grants
Gifted & Talented (Javits) ~$16.5 million ~0.01%–0.02%
Here’s a clear breakdown of how much the U.S. federal government spends on special education programs versus gifted and talented programs — based on the most recent federal budget figures and analysis available:
???? 1. Special Education (Federal Spending)
Primary funding program:
Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) — the main federal special education funding stream.
FY2024–FY2025 funding levels:
Special education grants to states & districts: about $15.5 billion – $18.2 billion+ annually under IDEA and related special education appropriations.
U.S. Department of Education
+1
Department of Education data also notes roughly $15.5 billion of federal K-12 grant dollars were spent on special education in a recent fiscal year.
San
For perspective, in the overall federal Department of Education grant portfolio (~$150 billion total), special education is one of the largest individual K-12 categories (often second only to low-income/Title I funding).
Pew Research Center
Key points:
Special education funding is a major, ongoing federal commitment with dedicated statutory authority and formula grants.
Federal IDEA funding has historically not reached the 40 % cost share initially envisioned under the law – meaning states/localities still cover most of the expense.
National Education Association
?? 2. Gifted and Talented Education (Federal Spending)
Primary (and near-only) federal program:
Jacob K. Javits Gifted and Talented Education Act Grants
Funding levels:
In recent years, the Javits program has been allocated approximately $16.5 million annually.
Zoonop
+1
Relative scale:
That funding level amounts to roughly 0.01 %–0.02 % of total federal K-12 education funding.
Zoonop
Many federal budgets don’t have any other significant gifted education line items, meaning nearly all federal earmarks specifically for gifted programs come through Javits.
Important note:
Recent federal budget proposals would consolidate Javits into broader competitive funding pools rather than maintain it as a distinct line item, potentially making dedicated gifted funding even less visible.
Zoonop
?? Comparison at a Glance
Program Category Approx. Federal Annual Funding % of Federal K-12 Education Spending*
Special Education (IDEA + related) $15+ billion ~10%–12%+ of federal K-12 grants
Gifted & Talented (Javits) ~$16.5 million ~0.01%–0.02%
*Percentages are approximate and based on comparisons to total federal elementary & secondary education funding (which is often ~$120–130 billion range) rather than the entire Department of Education budget.
This post was edited on 1/6/26 at 8:34 am
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:18 am to UtahCajun
quote:
Whole lotta words.
It's what he does. He takes any issue and conflates, confounds, and muddies the waters with his word salad. Then claims he didn't take the position you clearly can see.
He's the pigeon that plays chess.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:23 am to SlowFlowPro
I was and maybe not everything he said is factually accurate to the letter, but he wasn't wrong. You know that, but again you play contrarion. I've concluded that this is all actually just an act by you. I decided it some time ago actually. You aren't this stupid, you just find humor in punching holes in the weak part of an argument or being once again, willfully obtuse.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:30 am to BrianKellysbuyout
quote:
you just find humor in punching holes in the weak part of an argument
This board has become flooded with bad arguments, and people then double/triple down on them.
So yes, I spend a lot of time having to point out dishonest arguments, bad arguments, lies, etc. Other people don't seem to want to clean it up and the NPCs run with it quickly if you don't cut the head off early.
The totality of this guy's post has effectively been discredited. And in the process of doing that, I get to make the meta point that meritocracy (which used to be favored as a policy preference on here) and populism (the alleged preferred policy preference today) are in complete conflict with each other, using the bad argument in OP.
win win
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:32 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Describing the conflict in meritocracy and populism has no value in the discussion
Nope. You conflated it by trying to bring it in with your false equivalence.
Stop it. Be better. Be less bad.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:32 am to VOR
They walk among us and I interact with them daily.
I live in this country.
Maybe some people are insulated from the street level American.
Vast majority shouldn’t vote. Couldn’t pass a civics test and are completely against adhering to any kind of social contract.
I live in this country.
Maybe some people are insulated from the street level American.
Vast majority shouldn’t vote. Couldn’t pass a civics test and are completely against adhering to any kind of social contract.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:35 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
So yes, I spend a lot of time having to point out dishonest arguments, bad arguments, lies, etc
Willfully lying = dishonest arguments
You are guilty of that in this very thread.
Be better. Be less bad.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:39 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You wrote all that to confuse criticism of the X post with criticism of the defense of the X post by a post on here.
Just FYI.
You trying to pull a jedi mind trick on me or something?
1) I didn't write all that much (half the post is quoted google AI summary). And an implicit critique of being wordy from you is genuinely amusing.
2) I very much noted your attack of the X post in your original reply where you insult him:
quote:
I'd like to see this data b/c G/T is under SPED. This guy clearly wasn't in Gifted.
It was your 2nd reply where you then lazily leveraged the other poster’s reply as a basis to accuse the X poster of histrionics that I decided to do a quick google search and correct you.
No confusion on my part.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:43 am to epbart
quote:
2) I very much noted your attack of the X post in your original reply where you insult him:
You specifically used "histrionics" which was only to describe the argument made by a poster on here, not the post in OP.
quote:
where you then lazily leveraged the other poster’s reply as a basis to accuse the X poster of histrionics
See, you're doing it again, confusing the 2.
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