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Message
re: Things Libertarians need to realize...
Posted on 2/12/14 at 2:29 pm to bamafan1001
Posted on 2/12/14 at 2:29 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
1) Fiscal issues matter way more than minute social issues(gay marriage etc)
2) Overreaching government(IRS, NSA) matters way more than minute social issues
3) If 1 and 2 dont get reigned in, social issues will be an afterthought, regardless
4) The Christian right is fighting the same battles on the same side as Libertarians on 1 and 2
5) Your strategies of ridicule and criticism are ineffective. They dont win others to your cause, they cause the other side to become defensive
6) Many on the Christian right are more Libertarian than you probably think. They just need to be convinced that Libertarian viewpoints can coincide with Christian beliefs. Joining in with the left to demean the Christian right doesnt help your cause
7) Discussion of ideology alone will not accomplish anything. The GOP needs more Libertarian candidates and less Libertarian peanut galleries
8) Expecting the Christian right to ignore the teachings of the Bible(whether you think they are fairy tales or not) will result in major frustration for YOU
I don't think you know what a Libertarian is...
1
Posted on 2/12/14 at 2:30 pm to LSUnKaty
The OP is quite a bit off base, as many Christians do battle and try to "out-Jesus" one another with things that infringe upon the rights of another.
The OP is also very correct in that many of the Libertarians are extremely smug and condescending, which will never get them anywhere except being the metaphorical version of a heckler bitching in the bleachers.
And I consider myself Christian with Libertarian views.
The OP is also very correct in that many of the Libertarians are extremely smug and condescending, which will never get them anywhere except being the metaphorical version of a heckler bitching in the bleachers.
And I consider myself Christian with Libertarian views.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 2:33 pm to LSUnKaty
quote:
OK - give me a practical example of freedom that government alone can give. That would never exist without government.
I said rights and freedoms. We have many rights that government gives us like voting for example. No government = anarchy. Some government is essential for a civilized society. With that comes rights granted by said government. Some positive, some negative.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 2:37 pm to uway
quote:
2 - Traditional marriage has been recognized and rewarded (government recognition/reward, societal approbation, etc) for a REASON. It's not arbitrary, and it can't be replicated by two men.
If you are pro gay marriage but can't explain why traditional marriage was recognized and rewarded in the first place, then you are being thoughtless.
You should probably try to understand WHY government got into the "marriage game" before you tell them to get out of it.
The purpose of marriage was NEVER about procreating dude. Just stop that argument. It's so ignorant. More and more people are getting married and choosing not to have children. This isnt the 1950s anymore where you are expected to have 5 kids.
Also, gay couples raise children all the time, a lot of time by adopting orphans. Nobody is taking children away from their parents. They are giving kids with no parents a loving and supportive home.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 2:39 pm to bamafan1001
quote:We have plenty of liberty-minded candidates, what we need are more liberty-minded Americans.
Im saying that we need more liberty minded candidates
quote:Then why are you sitting around allowing it to happen? Oh, that's right, you didn't like what a supporter said. Sounds like YOU are the one taking your ball and going home.
We on the fiscal right are far too many to be letting our country be run like this.
Ya know, you've got some nerve criticizing those attempting to make change while you sit on your arse behind a keyboard.
quote:Yeah, and to show just how committed you are to this, your're going to go out in the next election and vote for another one, because you were told not to like some of the supporters of the candidate who should be in office.
I want to DEFEAT big government politicians, not get swallowed up by the government monster they are creating.
You really showed us.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 2:41 pm to Tom288
quote:Not the first clue.
I don't think you know what a Libertarian is...
But he does know what TV told him to think is a Libertarian. And he was even given enough talking points to parrot on a message board.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 2:44 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
1) Fiscal issues matter way more than minute social issues(gay marriage etc)
Yeah, so why do you give a shite and make it such a big issue on this board and nationally. It's one of the main issues holding back your party.
quote:
2) Overreaching government(IRS, NSA) matters way more than minute social issues
Agreed, but I don't believe christian conservatives really have a problem with it. They have a problem with it when Obama is in power. And that's it.
And libertarians have made this a major issue, not christian conservatives. Just look at the posts on this board.
quote:
4) The Christian right is fighting the same battles on the same side as Libertarians on 1 and 2
Not really. You're fighting for a different kind of big government.
quote:
5) Your strategies of ridicule and criticism are ineffective. They dont win others to your cause, they cause the other side to become defensive
No one convinces anyone on this board to change their views ever.
quote:
6) Many on the Christian right are more Libertarian than you probably think.
Gonna have to really prove that...your word against the this board as evidence.
quote:
Joining in with the left to demean the Christian right doesnt help your cause
Who's "joining with the left" we can have independent view points that coincide with the right or left on occasion.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 2:46 pm to Moustache
quote:I agree; freedom and liberty aren't worth voting for if I don't like a few folks advocating it.
The OP is also very correct in that many of the Libertarians are extremely smug and condescending, which will never get them anywhere except being the metaphorical version of a heckler bitching in the bleachers.
I swear to God, some people don't deserve to live in this country.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 2:56 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:People vote on things all the time that have nothing to do with government.
like voting for example.
The ability to participate in government via the vote, or any other means, is a necessary component of representative government. According to the Declaration of Independence, governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, to secure rights (not to create rights).
It would be ridiculous to say that Government created the right to institute itself. That right existed prior to the institution as did the right to be heard and make known one's consent to such institution. Voting is simply a mechanism to exercise those rights. To the extent that governments deny suffrage they are trampling on rights - not the other way around.
This post was edited on 2/12/14 at 2:59 pm
Posted on 2/12/14 at 2:59 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
quote:
I don't think you know what a Libertarian is...
Not the first clue.
But he does know what TV told him to think is a Libertarian. And he was even given enough talking points to parrot on a message board.
I know exactly what Libertarians are: condescending loser jackasses who would rather hold elitist views than actually change anything.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 3:02 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
Why are there not more libertarian candidates?
the various litmus tests Republican candidates are traditionally held to on social issues are a big reason...
Posted on 2/12/14 at 3:02 pm to bamafan1001
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/11/21 at 1:36 am
Posted on 2/12/14 at 3:02 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
I know exactly what Libertarians are: condescending loser jackasses who would rather hold elitist views than actually change anything.
quote:
*I am a Libertarian leaning Christian
Posted on 2/12/14 at 3:03 pm to bamafan1001
quote:If you truly believe that freedom and liberty are "elitist" views, then you aren't ready to vote. How old are you?
I know exactly what Libertarians are: condescending loser jackasses who would rather hold elitist views than actually change anything.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 3:05 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
A Libertarian response .... should be something like: "I agree that govt shouldnt allowing gay marriage. They shouldnt have to allow any marriage because, as you say, its ultimately God who sanctions marriage. People should be free to live for God or live in sin. Its God's job to turn those from sin not the govt."
yea, I can imagine WikiTiger saying that...
Posted on 2/12/14 at 3:15 pm to bamafan1001
quote:This might be the most ignorant statement I've ever read on this board...And folks, that's saying a lot.
Most Libertarians choose to do neither. They would rather sit by and watch the country burn while throwing sticks at the ones trying to put it out.
As a Ron Paul delegate in '08 and a volunteer in '12, I personally saw thousands of people busting their patriotic asses trying to overcome the propaganda that folks like you were, and continue to, swallow.
Libertarians were the ONLY people trying to put out the fire you describe.
So until you grow up and leave mommies basement, please STFU. You have no clue what you're talking about.
ETA: I'm sorry, but the time for niceties is over. This country is going to shite. The last thing we need is some condescending prick pouring gasoline on the fire.
LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET THE frick OUT OF THE WAY a-hole!
This post was edited on 2/12/14 at 3:31 pm
Posted on 2/12/14 at 3:17 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
1) Fiscal issues matter way more than minute social issues(gay marriage etc)
2) Overreaching government(IRS, NSA) matters way more than minute social issues
3) If 1 and 2 dont get reigned in, social issues will be an afterthought, regardless
4) The Christian right is fighting the same battles on the same side as Libertarians on 1 and 2
5) Your strategies of ridicule and criticism are ineffective. They dont win others to your cause, they cause the other side to become defensive
6) Many on the Christian right are more Libertarian than you probably think. They just need to be convinced that Libertarian viewpoints can coincide with Christian beliefs. Joining in with the left to demean the Christian right doesnt help your cause
7) Discussion of ideology alone will not accomplish anything. The GOP needs more Libertarian candidates and less Libertarian peanut galleries
8) Expecting the Christian right to ignore the teachings of the Bible(whether you think they are fairy tales or not) will result in major frustration for YOU
*I am a Libertarian leaning Christian
I agree with pretty much all of this.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 3:18 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
5) Your strategies of ridicule and criticism are ineffective. They dont win others to your cause, they cause the other side to become defensive
Not true!
These strategies are highly effective! I would recommend to all my libertarian friends and associates that you insult people as much as possible if you want to win their vote. For instance, if you want the blacks to vote for you, its best to inform them that the Democrats have made slaves of them all and they just are too dim to realize it.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 3:26 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
The purpose of marriage was NEVER about procreating dude. Just stop that argument. It's so ignorant.
You obviously don't know what you're talking about.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 3:29 pm to Zach
quote:
You have a jaundiced view of libertarianism. We are not consumed with gay marriage or drug legalization. We are for freedom and that means limited govt and private property rights.
I suppose you've met some anti-Christian sorts who claim to be libertarian. But freedom means being free to worship in any way you see fit as long as it does not infringe upon my freedom.
I think your beliefs probably fall very much in line with the OP.
I think his point, which I agree with, is that the trend seems to be that libertarians are shifting away from the Republican party. This is a big mistake. Instead, the best approach would be an attack on the Republican party from the inside out...ultimately rebuilding the Republican party into what is really should be.
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