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What happened to the libertarian movement re: immigration?
Posted on 1/16/26 at 10:22 pm
Posted on 1/16/26 at 10:22 pm
There was a time not that long ago where the libertarian movement had a vibrant if not majority faction that had center-right to right wing views on illegal immigration.
This faction has all but vanished. The 2 major libertarian institutions- reason.com and the CATO institute- are firmly on the left on illegal immigration.
My hunch is that this is because so many ex libertarians have left the movement/party in the last decade, as the movement offers no defense/message against institutional wokeism, identity politics, etc. What is left is a movement populated by individuals who are either left(ish) or indifferent to cultural rot.
This faction has all but vanished. The 2 major libertarian institutions- reason.com and the CATO institute- are firmly on the left on illegal immigration.
My hunch is that this is because so many ex libertarians have left the movement/party in the last decade, as the movement offers no defense/message against institutional wokeism, identity politics, etc. What is left is a movement populated by individuals who are either left(ish) or indifferent to cultural rot.
7
Posted on 1/16/26 at 10:24 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Libertarians by nature are no borders and free immigration. Not sure why you are surprised.
Posted on 1/16/26 at 10:27 pm to BigPerm30
quote:
Libertarians by nature are no borders and free immigration. Not sure why you are surprised.
This is not true at all.
Murray Rothbard
Hans Herman hoppe
Stefan molyneaux
Lew Rockwell
Walter Block
among other major libertarian figures were staunchly against illegal immigration
Posted on 1/16/26 at 10:29 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
This very board from around 2009-2014 or so was very libertarian. Not the case at all these days.
Posted on 1/16/26 at 10:34 pm to Paul Allen
I’m more libertarian than whatever ‘conservative’ is these days.
Posted on 1/16/26 at 10:41 pm to weagle1999
“Conservative” is the cover word for fringe libertarian's.
Posted on 1/16/26 at 10:43 pm to Paul Allen
quote:
This very board from around 2009-2014 or so was very libertarian. Not the case at all these days.
They grew up?
Posted on 1/16/26 at 10:46 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
They are open borders. Period. They have been. Always have been.
The very first guy you mentioned was flat out typical libertarian. He promoted the free movement of people. He stated it should be up to the property owner.
As he grew up and older, he did change his tune.
The very first guy you mentioned was flat out typical libertarian. He promoted the free movement of people. He stated it should be up to the property owner.
As he grew up and older, he did change his tune.
This post was edited on 1/16/26 at 10:53 pm
Posted on 1/16/26 at 10:49 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
They are open borders. Period. They have been. Always have been.
This is not true.
One of the defining characteristics of the libertarian movement/party, at least historically, was an intense clash between those who supported open orders and those who did not.
The latter no longer exist within the movement
Posted on 1/16/26 at 10:55 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
This is not true.
One of the defining characteristics of the libertarian movement/party, at least historically, was an intense clash between those who supported open orders and those who did not.
Dude their party platform has been the same for decades.
Also, its the same with free trade. A libertarian policy and belief. Just like open borders, its not practical . Just like communism. All of it on paper sounds great. In practice, not so much.
Posted on 1/16/26 at 11:02 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Hoppe:
Authority comes from private property owners
No collective “nation” has a right to decide who may enter
Borders are simply the sum of individual property boundaries
Entry is a matter of contract and consent
Authority comes from private property owners
No collective “nation” has a right to decide who may enter
Borders are simply the sum of individual property boundaries
Entry is a matter of contract and consent
Posted on 1/16/26 at 11:09 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Existence of a massive welfare state is a nonstarter for open borders philosophy.
Posted on 1/16/26 at 11:29 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
They are open borders. Period. They have been. Always have been.
There are two different types of libertarians. You should already know this as this has been written about for 40 fricking years. First time I read about it was Milton Friedman. Lately, Hans Hermann Hoppe does a good job explaining it.
The majority of libertarians on this board, the Rand Paul/Javier Milei/Thomas Massie types, believe open borders are an assault on private property. It has always been that way. Period.
Posted on 1/16/26 at 11:32 pm to weagle1999
quote:
I’m more libertarian than whatever ‘conservative’ is these days.
Probably not.
You're probably either more conservative than populist (which is what tries to pass for "conservative" now), or you're more populist than either libertarian or conservative.
I could be wrong, but odds are it's likely one of those two.
Posted on 1/16/26 at 11:35 pm to BigPerm30
quote:Even if so, surely they KNOW that doesn’t work if only 1 country practices this. Especially when that one is theirs. Are these people retarded?
Libertarians by nature are no borders and free immigration. Not sure why you are surprised.
Posted on 1/16/26 at 11:39 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
The very first guy you mentioned was flat out typical libertarian. He promoted the free movement of people. He stated it should be up to the property owner.
That is not open borders though is it?
open borders are an assault on private property Mises.org
This post was edited on 1/16/26 at 11:43 pm
Posted on 1/16/26 at 11:47 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
You're probably either more conservative than populist (which is what tries to pass for "conservative" now), or you're more populist than either libertarian or conservative. I could be wrong, but odds are it's likely one of those two.
The whole system is populism, the person who can get the most support and votes. It isn’t what someone’s beliefs are. I can list trumps campaign agenda and he is mixed just like most people in America. The whole conservative thing here on this board is the far right. The issue is the far ends of the spectrum who don’t participate or aren’t happy. That’s why libertarians and “staunch conservatives” on here aren’t in power and MAGA is. It shows during elections when Trump has more votes than down ballot races.
This post was edited on 1/16/26 at 11:49 pm
Posted on 1/17/26 at 12:08 am to Jugbow
quote:
The whole system is populism, the person who can get the most support and votes.
No.
Populism doesn't mean "popular."
Populism is a philosophy of Us vs Them. "Us" being whatever the populist group considers to be the disadvantaged, downtrodden, ordinary citizen with little or no power and "Them" being the "Elites" or the power brokers.
The left has been dominated by populism for decades. The right has only been dominated by populism for 10-15 years.
"Us" to the right = white people, men, middle class people, working class people, normies, families, and "Them" = some nebulous, shadowy secret cabal that goes by "Deep State," "Globalists," "Illuminati," and that supposedly runs the world, Joos, black people, rich people (except the ones who agree with them), academia, LGBTQ+ people, etc.
To the populist left, "Us" = Queers, LGBTQ+, illegal immigrants, women, poor people, black people, brown people, academia, and "Them" = men, middle class people, rich people (except the ones who agree with them), white people, normies, families, working class people, native born Americans, etc.
Policy matters very little to either side, unless it's policy that is seen as punitive towards "Us."
That's why Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders agree on tariffs, for example.
Conservatism is very different. It doesn't care who someone is. Conservatism welcomes anyone who supports policies that promote traditional values, smaller government, lower taxes and less spending, strong military, and maximum freedom and personal responsibility, and who supports the foundational principles that make that freedom and responsibility possible.
Populism is an inherently collectivist philosophy, which is why it always pulls to the left. It likes bigger government, as long as government is intervening to benefit "Us." It also has little regard for foundational principles (unless they happen to benefit "Us."). It doesn't mind if the first amendment is violated, for example, as long as it is in the context of suppressing speech it doesn't like.
Posted on 1/17/26 at 12:10 am to BigPerm30
quote:
Libertarians by nature are no borders and free immigration. Not sure why you are surprised.
There are two types of libertarian, small government libertarians and anarchists who pretend they are libertarian.
The second has taken over the postmodern libertarian movement.
Posted on 1/17/26 at 12:11 am to frogtown
Milton Friedman was open border early on. He changed over the years to understand exactly what the others did. That its not practical.
But let's take it one step more. Communism....
Communism is a political and economic ideology aiming for a classless society with common ownership of the means of production, eliminating private property, with wealth distributed by need, rooted in Marxist theory.
Sounds great. We all work. We all get what we need. Except for real-world implementation often results in authoritarian single-party states controlling the economy and suppressing freedoms, contrasting sharply with its theoretical egalitarian goals.
The biggest issue with our party is that nobody knows friggin history. So they no idea what is conservative, liberal, or any other.
We have people on this board that proclaim themselves to be conservatives that 100% believe a tariff is evil and a creation by the left. In reality, its not.
We have people who are conservative claiming any conservative that believes in America First is somehow Bernie looking Sanders. Its ignorance.
Just ignorance
But let's take it one step more. Communism....
Communism is a political and economic ideology aiming for a classless society with common ownership of the means of production, eliminating private property, with wealth distributed by need, rooted in Marxist theory.
Sounds great. We all work. We all get what we need. Except for real-world implementation often results in authoritarian single-party states controlling the economy and suppressing freedoms, contrasting sharply with its theoretical egalitarian goals.
The biggest issue with our party is that nobody knows friggin history. So they no idea what is conservative, liberal, or any other.
We have people on this board that proclaim themselves to be conservatives that 100% believe a tariff is evil and a creation by the left. In reality, its not.
We have people who are conservative claiming any conservative that believes in America First is somehow Bernie looking Sanders. Its ignorance.
Just ignorance
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