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Started By
Message
re: What public education has done for our country
Posted on 11/28/16 at 9:44 pm to Bmath
Posted on 11/28/16 at 9:44 pm to Bmath
I get skeptical when the vast majority of funding is tied to the groups pushing agendas on the subject.
I get skeptical when proponents parrot long-debunked statistics as fact.
I get skeptical when I see proponents get caught red-handed fudging data to support their narrative.
I get skeptical when I read climate studies touted by the UN where the abstract makes claims the study's data in no way supports.
I get skeptical when peer reviewed journals censor those who attempt to peer review studies promoting AGW which cannot replicate the results.
I also get skeptical when publishing institutions blackball and refuse to publish the findings of scientists whose findings do not fit the narrative.
I get skeptical when I see faulty, flawed models which have repeatedly been proven wrong recycled over and over again to provide proof that the earth is warming:
I get skeptical when AGW alarmists repeatedly make predictions about future warming and weather conditions which never come true.
I get skeptical when AGW supporters falsly attribute symptoms of other naturally occuring processes (volcanoes, urban heat island effect, variations in solar activity, subsidence in deltaic systems) to global warming.
I get skeptical when the only solutions offered by AGW supporters just happen to be the same solutions the democratic party offers for literally everything else: more taxes, more government regulation of businesses, a push to deindustrialization, and reduced liberty for private citizens.
I get skeptical when the loudest proponents of AGW also happen to own stakes in the massive carbon trading exchange they wish to create to profit from regulation of our economy in the efforts to combat AGW, which would make them all wealtht beyond measure.
I get skeptical when AGW proponents readily dismiss skeptics as kooks, and call them names rather than debate the science or debunk their claims. People only use insults, labels, and emotion in arguments when they can't win with substance.
And finally, I get skeptical when those who would so willingly ignore and subvert the scientific method call those who would question their perversions "anti-science". There is never anything "anti-science" about asking questions, for that is, in fact, the very basis of science.
I get skeptical when proponents parrot long-debunked statistics as fact.
I get skeptical when I see proponents get caught red-handed fudging data to support their narrative.
I get skeptical when I read climate studies touted by the UN where the abstract makes claims the study's data in no way supports.
I get skeptical when peer reviewed journals censor those who attempt to peer review studies promoting AGW which cannot replicate the results.
I also get skeptical when publishing institutions blackball and refuse to publish the findings of scientists whose findings do not fit the narrative.
I get skeptical when I see faulty, flawed models which have repeatedly been proven wrong recycled over and over again to provide proof that the earth is warming:
I get skeptical when AGW alarmists repeatedly make predictions about future warming and weather conditions which never come true.
I get skeptical when AGW supporters falsly attribute symptoms of other naturally occuring processes (volcanoes, urban heat island effect, variations in solar activity, subsidence in deltaic systems) to global warming.
I get skeptical when the only solutions offered by AGW supporters just happen to be the same solutions the democratic party offers for literally everything else: more taxes, more government regulation of businesses, a push to deindustrialization, and reduced liberty for private citizens.
I get skeptical when the loudest proponents of AGW also happen to own stakes in the massive carbon trading exchange they wish to create to profit from regulation of our economy in the efforts to combat AGW, which would make them all wealtht beyond measure.
I get skeptical when AGW proponents readily dismiss skeptics as kooks, and call them names rather than debate the science or debunk their claims. People only use insults, labels, and emotion in arguments when they can't win with substance.
And finally, I get skeptical when those who would so willingly ignore and subvert the scientific method call those who would question their perversions "anti-science". There is never anything "anti-science" about asking questions, for that is, in fact, the very basis of science.
This post was edited on 11/28/16 at 9:46 pm
0
Posted on 11/28/16 at 9:56 pm to kingbob
I hardly ever post but the topic of public education has always been fascinating. The truth is American public education is performing exactly the way Horace Mann, John Dewey and the other fathers of public education intended. It was designed by them to create a socialist non individualistic society where progressive ideas woukd become the primary influencer during a child's development. They never referred to the duty to impart knowledge but only to the social, communal goals for society. Anyway...I could go on but I would sound like a tin foil hat dude. In reality, I'm just a 51 year old father of three that has been wrestling with these issues for quite a while. If anyone is truly interested I will send links to support what I've stated.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 9:59 pm to littlebaldman
quote:Well besides your lack of evidence for this theory, the "socialist" couldn't even muster much support in the Democratic primary. So it's not "working."
It was designed by them to create a socialist non individualistic society
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:00 pm to ballscaster
quote:
Whether or not man can have a significant impact on global climate is neither conservative nor liberal.
A fricking Men. Its like this board doesn't realize they are allowed to have their own thoughts. Follow that party line. It's pathetic.
This post was edited on 11/28/16 at 10:01 pm
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:02 pm to buckeye_vol
Quick researcher! Bravo.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:08 pm to littlebaldman
quote:You made the strong, affirmative, and somewhat ambiguous conspiracy(ish) statements.
Quick researcher! Bravo.
You didn't offer any evidence except that you're a father--so your presented "expertise" is grounded in an anecdotal perspective.
This post was edited on 11/28/16 at 10:09 pm
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:18 pm to buckeye_vol
Just trying to prompt folks that might be interested to look into the stated motives and philosophies of these folks that's all. I never intended to argue. I will leave this thread with Dewey's words
“You can’t make Socialists out of individualists — children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society which is coming, where everyone is interdependent.”
“You can’t make Socialists out of individualists — children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society which is coming, where everyone is interdependent.”
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:29 pm to TigerMikeAtl
Public schools should never be the end all/be all in a childs education. It is just a portion of their education. People need to stop being lazy and shitty parents and depending on schools alone to educate their offspring.
1. Teach a child to question everything, even from yourself
2. Teach them the shite you wish you knew at their age.
Will make for successful people later on.
1. Teach a child to question everything, even from yourself
2. Teach them the shite you wish you knew at their age.
Will make for successful people later on.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:43 pm to littlebaldman
quote:And the only references I can find to this quote are from sites referencing a quote from an Ann Coulter book and a book from the evangelist John Stormer (might be where Ann Coulter got it).
I will leave this thread with Dewey's words
I can't find this quote anywhere (Stormer said it was in the Human Events newsletter).
So if your worldview is based on second hand references to second hand references without any evidence from source material, then that's more troubling than whatever you're arguing against.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:46 pm to Mr.Sinister
LSU's construction management department is one of the best in the country because they took an approach in creating the program that was completely anathema to how academia treats every other subject. They knew that they would be judged based on their graduates' abilities to obtain and perform jobs. They knew that their graduates' successes would inevitably be their source of funding in the future. So, how did they build their program.
Step 1: they talked to the major companies in the region and asked them what they needed graduates to know. By knowing wha. Employers needed, they made sure the skills they were teaching would inevitably translate well to the private sector.
Step 2: they asked dozens of self-made millionaires who built multi-multi-multi million, and some multi billion dollar businesses in that field what they wished they had known coming out of school.
Step 3: they made sure that corriculum was taught by people who had actually worked those jobs for a living, many having done so for decades.
Step 4: they eliminated all the unnecessary fluff and focused only on teaching and testing practical skills and their application, while constantly asking students and alumni what additional learning they would like to see incorporated into each class.
Step 5: after graduation, they invite graduates to constantly participate in functions to train students and revise the corriculum to find ways they can make it ever more current, relevent, and useful.
This created a program that students could easily buy in to because they knew exactly what they were learnig, why they were learning it, and what they could do with it. Then, when they were done learning it, they went into the private work force and applied that knowledge and found it was all useful. In my first 6 months, I used skills from every class I took in that department in some form or another.
Why can't we use portions of that model in other functions? Why do we insist that students must only learn what we tell them to learn and never explain why they are better off knowing it? We put every kid in one rail car with one destination and pretend like every kid is the exact same when they're not. They have different interests, different aptitudes, different learning styles, and different motivating factors. We could reach them all, but we don't because it's easier to just put them all in a cattle car and let the chips fall where they will.
Step 1: they talked to the major companies in the region and asked them what they needed graduates to know. By knowing wha. Employers needed, they made sure the skills they were teaching would inevitably translate well to the private sector.
Step 2: they asked dozens of self-made millionaires who built multi-multi-multi million, and some multi billion dollar businesses in that field what they wished they had known coming out of school.
Step 3: they made sure that corriculum was taught by people who had actually worked those jobs for a living, many having done so for decades.
Step 4: they eliminated all the unnecessary fluff and focused only on teaching and testing practical skills and their application, while constantly asking students and alumni what additional learning they would like to see incorporated into each class.
Step 5: after graduation, they invite graduates to constantly participate in functions to train students and revise the corriculum to find ways they can make it ever more current, relevent, and useful.
This created a program that students could easily buy in to because they knew exactly what they were learnig, why they were learning it, and what they could do with it. Then, when they were done learning it, they went into the private work force and applied that knowledge and found it was all useful. In my first 6 months, I used skills from every class I took in that department in some form or another.
Why can't we use portions of that model in other functions? Why do we insist that students must only learn what we tell them to learn and never explain why they are better off knowing it? We put every kid in one rail car with one destination and pretend like every kid is the exact same when they're not. They have different interests, different aptitudes, different learning styles, and different motivating factors. We could reach them all, but we don't because it's easier to just put them all in a cattle car and let the chips fall where they will.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:54 pm to kingbob
quote:You are really nailing it in this thread. Well done.
kingbob
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:58 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
Since Republicans control all three branches of government and numerous state houses and legislators how can you claim public education from grade school to college has indoctrinated students to become liberals? What is your proof? If they have been indoctrinating all these years then why have they failed so miserably?
because lower and middle class people who finished high school but didn't go to college are the ones who elected conservatives...the voter demographics released after the election show clear evidence that college educated sjws stayed home on election day and smoked weed and meth. ~I kid...but not really~
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:09 pm to TigerMikeAtl
I went to 12 years of Catholic school. I find they didn't teach me much about this stuff, and I had both a year of US History AND a year of civics.
If you want to be educated, you need to teach yourself.
If you want to be educated, you need to teach yourself.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:11 pm to TigerMikeAtl
The Founders would be pissed that the states don't handle their own schools.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:12 pm to Wolfhound45
Thank you. I am a product of Louisiana's public education system in a "good" school district in a blue collar region with lots of poor and middle class whites and blacks. I learned what I know now from graduating, going to college, and then moving on to life in the private sector. I quickly learned that the only things I had learned were:
Algebra
Wildly inaccurate American history that glorified Woodrow Wilson and FDR (the one time we ever even made it all the way to World War II, which only happened in AP History)
Insufficient civics
How to write a 3 point, 5 paragraph essay
That's about it. I was completely unprepared for college or even just interacting with the world around me. I didn't know how to vote. I didn't know how our state government worked or what to do if I were arrested. I didn't know how to buy a car, build up my credit score, balance a check book, start a business, shop for insurance, or pay my taxes. I didn't know how to find a job or even that all kinds of jobs existed without a college degree. I was only told that I had to go to college. I had no idea what a welder or a plumber makes.
I started keeping a running tab of all the stuff I wish I hadn't had to learn on my own or from my parents, and this thread is the result.
Algebra
Wildly inaccurate American history that glorified Woodrow Wilson and FDR (the one time we ever even made it all the way to World War II, which only happened in AP History)
Insufficient civics
How to write a 3 point, 5 paragraph essay
That's about it. I was completely unprepared for college or even just interacting with the world around me. I didn't know how to vote. I didn't know how our state government worked or what to do if I were arrested. I didn't know how to buy a car, build up my credit score, balance a check book, start a business, shop for insurance, or pay my taxes. I didn't know how to find a job or even that all kinds of jobs existed without a college degree. I was only told that I had to go to college. I had no idea what a welder or a plumber makes.
I started keeping a running tab of all the stuff I wish I hadn't had to learn on my own or from my parents, and this thread is the result.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:30 pm to kingbob
I graduated from Broadmoor HS in 1981 (disclaimer - I attended BR parochial schools from kindergarten through the middle of eleventh grade and then transferred to BHS). I personally cannot lay my lack of understanding of the world at their feet. I made little to no effort to learn and as I grew older was actually somewhat disruptive (came from a single parent home - not good). Joined the Army right out of high school and fortunately (slowly, painfully) grew up. But your insights are quite good and I truly appreciate them. Definitely more intellectual "heft" than we are used to seeing on this board.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:38 pm to Wolfhound45
There used to be a bunch of other posters like me on this board, but most of them were driven off the board about a year ago by the tidal wave of new Trump posters who denounced everyone who didn't agree with them 100% as "cucks" and "establishment". For months, those were the only words they knew. Most of the intelligent types left the board. I cut back on my posting here, but I stuck it out just to try to add some kind of diversity of thought to the board. Over the last year, it's been reduced to almost exclusively 3 or 4 liberal trolls and 50 Trump fan boys (I can't call them conservatives) who all parrot the same talking points over and over again and defend Trump no latter what, even when that means reversing themselves over and over again. It gets pretty tiring.
That's why I stayed, though. To foster discussion in threads like this one and others on issues other than _____ SLAMMED ______! _______ is literally Hitler!! And _______ is melting on twitter OMG!!!!
Education, energy, foreign policy, AGW, state issues, and systemic socio-economic and political issues are far kore interesting to me than Cult of Personality political sound-bytes. I'm here to learn about those issues.
That's why I stayed, though. To foster discussion in threads like this one and others on issues other than _____ SLAMMED ______! _______ is literally Hitler!! And _______ is melting on twitter OMG!!!!
Education, energy, foreign policy, AGW, state issues, and systemic socio-economic and political issues are far kore interesting to me than Cult of Personality political sound-bytes. I'm here to learn about those issues.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 2:31 am to TigerMikeAtl
Public education teaches kids to shop and go into credit debt.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 4:18 am to kingbob
I may be moving to New York City proper in a year for work reasons and I hope to get my kids into one of these three schools. These are PUBLIC schools. I will not doubt that they will do well there.
Townsend Harris High School
Modal Trigger
Townsend Harris High School performs a play
149 -11 Melbourne Ave., Queens
Admission: Open to NYC; grades 92-100; state exams: Levels 3.6-4.5; attendance
Enrollment: 1,132
Graduation rate: 100%
College ready: 100%
College enrollment: 100%
% Taking SAT: 97.1
Average total SAT score: 1981
# Taking AP tests: 309
AP Pass rate: 90.3%
This highly desired Flushing school appeals to motivated high-achievers from all five boroughs. In 2015, 5,996 applied for 306 freshman seats. With an emphasis on the classics, all students take two years of Greek or Latin. The rich curriculum seeks to instill a mastery of the humanities and an appreciation of nature, the arts, math and science.
All classes are honors, AP or college level. Offers career and technical education courses in engineering, law, scientific research and audiovisual technology. The building boasts a DNA lab and TV studio. Scholars conduct research at Queens College, NYU and Rockefeller University. Seniors earn tuition-free credits at Queens College and have access to the campus gym, library and cafeteria. The school buzzes with more than 25 clubs, 32 sports teams, and several academic societies.
The Steel Hawks robotics team has won awards at world championship events, and the school took top honors in the NYC Science Olympiad in 2016 and 2015. Kids take two trips abroad each year.
------------------------------------------
LINK
Townsend Harris High School
Modal Trigger
Townsend Harris High School performs a play
149 -11 Melbourne Ave., Queens
Admission: Open to NYC; grades 92-100; state exams: Levels 3.6-4.5; attendance
Enrollment: 1,132
Graduation rate: 100%
College ready: 100%
College enrollment: 100%
% Taking SAT: 97.1
Average total SAT score: 1981
# Taking AP tests: 309
AP Pass rate: 90.3%
This highly desired Flushing school appeals to motivated high-achievers from all five boroughs. In 2015, 5,996 applied for 306 freshman seats. With an emphasis on the classics, all students take two years of Greek or Latin. The rich curriculum seeks to instill a mastery of the humanities and an appreciation of nature, the arts, math and science.
All classes are honors, AP or college level. Offers career and technical education courses in engineering, law, scientific research and audiovisual technology. The building boasts a DNA lab and TV studio. Scholars conduct research at Queens College, NYU and Rockefeller University. Seniors earn tuition-free credits at Queens College and have access to the campus gym, library and cafeteria. The school buzzes with more than 25 clubs, 32 sports teams, and several academic societies.
The Steel Hawks robotics team has won awards at world championship events, and the school took top honors in the NYC Science Olympiad in 2016 and 2015. Kids take two trips abroad each year.
------------------------------------------
LINK
Posted on 11/29/16 at 5:00 am to Haughton99
quote:
99% of the college professors in the country would score higher than the OP using any test of intelligence available.
How many can separate truth from propaganda???
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