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re: Why do American Christians support Israel?
Posted on 5/18/21 at 8:53 pm to TNTigerman
Posted on 5/18/21 at 8:53 pm to TNTigerman
0
Posted on 5/18/21 at 9:49 pm to Craig86
quote:
Guys can we get back on the Israel topic
Sure. As you can see, when you ask a question of Christians it's always going to attract a lot on non-Christians answering for them and that tends to sidetrack things. You'd have to ask them why they do that.
Posted on 5/18/21 at 10:44 pm to Flats
I’m an atheist and started the thread. I love History though and this complex issue has always fascinated me.
Posted on 5/18/21 at 10:51 pm to Flats
quote:
Why do American Christians support Israel?
Because Hamas is a-hole.
Posted on 5/18/21 at 11:44 pm to TNTigerman
quote:
God turned his back on the Jews and the church became the the new people of God.
It goes against a myriad of scriptures and simply ignores all of them that say God will one day restore Israel and the blinders currently on their eyes will be lifted and they will all believe.
"Replacement theology", as you put it, is mainstream Christian theology.
Only in the early 20th Century, when the Rothschilds helped Freemason Scofield make up a bunch of really wild stuff to add to the bible, did American Baptists start believing otherwise.
Scofield twists scripture in terrible ways.
His insertions and interpretations are deliberately pro-Zionist. They are also at the foundations of modern American evangelicalism.
That's where you get the completely un-Biblical "two-covenants" theology, even thought it is never mentioned in the Bible, and Jesus himself contradicts the idea several times.
But nevermind what Jesus himself said. Listen to Scofield.
This post was edited on 5/18/21 at 11:46 pm
Posted on 5/19/21 at 1:52 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
Because they're the best nation in the middle east and actually have respect for other people's beliefs
You do realize that the Palestinians (Muslims, Christians, Druze) are second class citizens in their own land of birth?
Posted on 5/19/21 at 1:54 am to caleb07
quote:
So, you are for Hamas? Figures. They want to wipe us off the map also.
Why would they want to do that? Just because we've almost wiped them off the map?
The gall...
Posted on 5/19/21 at 4:10 am to Craig86
Craig86
You need to read the Bible, it will answer your questions.
And by reading the bible I am not talking about the 100's of translations based of the Codex Sinaiticus.
You need to read the Bible, it will answer your questions.
And by reading the bible I am not talking about the 100's of translations based of the Codex Sinaiticus.
Posted on 5/19/21 at 4:34 am to Craig86
I support them in comparison to their neighbors but not too emotionally invested. That’s not saying a lot though because I absolutely loathe Muslims
Posted on 5/19/21 at 5:06 am to tigger1
quote:
You need to read the Bible, it will answer your questions.
No it won’t.
Posted on 5/19/21 at 5:29 am to OBReb6
quote:
I support them in comparison to their neighbors but not too emotionally invested. That’s not saying a lot though because I absolutely loathe Muslims
You've met all 2 billion of them? That's pretty incredible.
Even more every single one of them is not nice.
BTW, you likely don't know this, but there are a significant number of Palestinian Christians. Do you hate them as well?
Posted on 5/19/21 at 5:44 am to gothamdawg
You are not going to be successful in shaming me. I am open minded for the most part but I do not like Muslims. Sue me
I did not say Arabs, or Palestinians, I said Muslims. Does that answer your stupid question?
quote:
BTW, you likely don't know this, but there are a significant number of Palestinian Christians. Do you hate them as well?
I did not say Arabs, or Palestinians, I said Muslims. Does that answer your stupid question?
Posted on 5/19/21 at 7:45 am to gothamdawg
quote:
You do realize that the Palestinians (Muslims, Christians, Druze) are second class citizens in their own land of birth?
Muslims have their own party in the Israeli government. How is that "second class?"
Do the Jews of Israel tear down religious icons that are important to the Muslim faith? Because that's what Muslims would do if they were to gain power there. Would you rather visit an Israel run by Jews, or by Muslims? These are the only two options, so don't pretend otherwise.
Posted on 5/19/21 at 8:30 am to TK421
quote:Because a consistent reading of the scriptures demands it.
Why do you believe that?
There is no reason to assume millions or billions of years from the Bible alone. It is only when you interpret the Bible through the lens of secular or atheistic scientific belief that it seems necessary to assume long time frames.
Posted on 5/19/21 at 8:55 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Because a consistent reading of the scriptures demands it.
You understand the original Hebrew? Or are you basing your denial of scientific evidence on someone else's translation of ancient text?
quote:
It is only when you interpret the Bible through the lens of secular or atheistic scientific belief
Science is not an atheist belief system, it is a method of studying the observable world. Why would God give us the ability and desire to learn more about his creation if everything we learned was wrong and incompatible with the Bible?
The conflict seen here is not the fault of God, the Bible, or science. It is the fault of arrogant Christians committed to an impossibly narrow interpretation of scripture.
Posted on 5/19/21 at 9:25 am to jimbeam
quote:
quote:
And some people would say that the Jews were the reason that Jesus was crucified.
i mean how can this be refuted
Do y'all not realize that Jesus was a Jew?...his disciples were Jews?
Many Jews were converted along with Gentiles by his disciples.
The fact that Jews and Gentiles are able to get along better than Muslims and Gentiles (read what the Koran says in Medina Surah 9:5) has a huge bearing on all of this.
Posted on 5/19/21 at 9:25 am to Roger Klarvin
Many assumptions but no facts.
Again, you have zero bases for morality. Star dust can do what ever star dust wants. If star dust wants to rape other star dust, in your world view, it is justified. There is no good and no goal directed actions and no ethics whatsoever. You believe fish became philosophers through evolution.
You are borrowing from the Christian world view again. Christians believe people are in the image of God and have intrinsic worth and value. Violent crime is justified in your world view. Your ethical system is based on societal convention which is a very weak stance. Slavery was ok in the US and accepted for many years. In the 1940’s it was stated Jews were not human and it was ok to murder them because society permitted it. You have zero justification to judge any criminal in your world view. Your views on society norms changes like the wind through time but the Bible does not.
Like Hitler and Stalin were Atheist. In fact Christians are the most persecuted group in the entire world. You are all over the place. What religion are you talking about?? I am not Muslim. Stay on topic here. We are talking about Christianity vs your blind atheist faith with evolution.
To be a Christian is to be Christ like. Christ did not kill, rape, or murder anyone. People who do these actions are not Christian and do not know God. In fact they are the opposite of being a Christian.
But again you are borrowing from the Christian world view. There is no coherent appeal to reason or the laws of logic apart from the Revelation of God.
quote:
Another important point is that the percentage of any population that desires to blindly rape, murder, etc. other members of society is very small
Again, you have zero bases for morality. Star dust can do what ever star dust wants. If star dust wants to rape other star dust, in your world view, it is justified. There is no good and no goal directed actions and no ethics whatsoever. You believe fish became philosophers through evolution.
quote:
The vast majority of people do not require religious or supernatural incentive to not be violent criminals
You are borrowing from the Christian world view again. Christians believe people are in the image of God and have intrinsic worth and value. Violent crime is justified in your world view. Your ethical system is based on societal convention which is a very weak stance. Slavery was ok in the US and accepted for many years. In the 1940’s it was stated Jews were not human and it was ok to murder them because society permitted it. You have zero justification to judge any criminal in your world view. Your views on society norms changes like the wind through time but the Bible does not.
quote:
studies from across the globe over the last century have consistently shown crime and incarceration rates among the non-religious are much lower than they are for the religious even when accounting for conversion after the crimes in question.
Like Hitler and Stalin were Atheist. In fact Christians are the most persecuted group in the entire world. You are all over the place. What religion are you talking about?? I am not Muslim. Stay on topic here. We are talking about Christianity vs your blind atheist faith with evolution.
quote:
Atheists, particularly western atheists, commit violent crimes at such a low rate as to be almost statistically insignificant. In Sweden, for example, you’re likely to have 7 Christians or 19 Muslims attempt to kill you before the first atheist or agnostic tries.
To be a Christian is to be Christ like. Christ did not kill, rape, or murder anyone. People who do these actions are not Christian and do not know God. In fact they are the opposite of being a Christian.
But again you are borrowing from the Christian world view. There is no coherent appeal to reason or the laws of logic apart from the Revelation of God.
This post was edited on 5/19/21 at 9:54 am
Posted on 5/19/21 at 9:43 am to TK421
quote:I don't understand original Hebrew, no, but I know many godly men who have dedicated decades to studying it who share my view of it.
You understand the original Hebrew? Or are you basing your denial of scientific evidence on someone else's translation of ancient text?
quote:I agree. My comment was about a secular or atheistic worldview that is common in the fields of science. Christians can and do use science as a tool all the time. It's not science I have a problem with, but the secular and atheistic worldviews that are prevalent within those fields that interpret the evidence according to their worldviews rather than from a Christian or biblical worldview.
Science is not an atheist belief system, it is a method of studying the observable world.
quote:It's not. The problem is that when we start from a basis that everything we study came about via natural processes, we're going to come to different conclusions than if we started from God creating everything.
Why would God give us the ability and desire to learn more about his creation if everything we learned was wrong and incompatible with the Bible?
quote:Actually it's the fault of those who reject the Bible's clear teaching in favor of interpretations based on humanistic and atheistic views that don't care whether or not God is even in the picture.
The conflict seen here is not the fault of God, the Bible, or science. It is the fault of arrogant Christians committed to an impossibly narrow interpretation of scripture.
We study the universe ultimately to learn more about God and glorify Him.
Posted on 5/19/21 at 9:54 am to FooManChoo
quote:
don't understand original Hebrew, no, but I know many godly men who have dedicated decades to studying it who share my view of it.
Plenty of Godly men came to a different conclusion. You picked your basis for a worldview on preconceived notions and reject all evidence to the contrary.
quote:
The problem is that when we start from a basis that everything we study came about via natural processes, we're going to come to different conclusions than if we started from God creating everything.
The data is the data. What you are describing is not science. You do not start with a conclusion and mold evidence to support it. This is the reason creationists are not taken seriously.
quote:
Actually it's the fault of those who reject the Bible's clear teaching
There is no clear teaching of the history of the universe or the world in the Bible. The fact that everything you believe is constantly undermined by scientific inquiry should illuminate that point rather than cause you to dig in further.
Posted on 5/19/21 at 9:55 am to TK421
quote:
You picked your basis for a worldview on preconceived notions and reject all evidence to the contrary.
FooManChoo? No way.
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