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re: Graph showing growth in MLS interest
Posted on 2/13/17 at 9:52 pm to LSUButt
Posted on 2/13/17 at 9:52 pm to LSUButt
quote:
and fricktards like you who have to bash the MLS just because it hasn't been around for 100 more years is dumb as shite.
no it has to do with the model being designed to limit competition and thus limit investment and development of the game in the US.
I want us to have the best domestic league we can have and I want to maybe see the US seriously compete to win a World Cup in my lifetime. Neither of those things are going to happen the way the system is set up now.
I WANT to like MLS, I really do. But trying to model our domestic league after the NFL and NBA, as a relative startup in a truly global market, it's not only holding our clubs back at all levels of the pyramid but it's also holding back our National Team.
This post was edited on 2/13/17 at 10:11 pm
2
Posted on 2/14/17 at 7:47 am to Draconian Sanctions
Part of the structure of the MLS is to have an academy program. People keep forgetting how new the MLS is. Yes, it was started in 1996, but the last 5-10 years it has taken off. We will see dividends in the future.
At the Union, instead of signing guys like Altidore, Bradly, Gio, Villa, etc etc we spend our money in the academy. We have some really really good 12 year olds (I know that sounds ridiculous, but you can tell skill at that age). They went to Spain last summer and competed against several academies like Barca and Villareal and they did well. Tied Barca 2-2, lost to Villa 2-1, and tied some other academy. Point is, the talent pool in the US is growing, it takes time. The NBA in the 70's was not the same skill as it is now. It's just dumb to compare.
At the Union, instead of signing guys like Altidore, Bradly, Gio, Villa, etc etc we spend our money in the academy. We have some really really good 12 year olds (I know that sounds ridiculous, but you can tell skill at that age). They went to Spain last summer and competed against several academies like Barca and Villareal and they did well. Tied Barca 2-2, lost to Villa 2-1, and tied some other academy. Point is, the talent pool in the US is growing, it takes time. The NBA in the 70's was not the same skill as it is now. It's just dumb to compare.
Posted on 2/14/17 at 7:54 am to LSUButt
quote:
Part of the structure of the MLS is to have an academy program. People keep forgetting how new the MLS is. Yes, it was started in 1996, but the last 5-10 years it has taken off. We will see dividends in the future. At the Union, instead of signing guys like Altidore, Bradly, Gio, Villa, etc etc we spend our money in the academy. We have some really really good 12 year olds (I know that sounds ridiculous, but you can tell skill at that age). They went to Spain last summer and competed against several academies like Barca and Villareal and they did well. Tied Barca 2-2, lost to Villa 2-1, and tied some other academy. Point is, the talent pool in the US is growing, it takes time. The NBA in the 70's was not the same skill as it is now. It's just dumb to compare.
Issue is 20 or MLS academies with a 100 or so kids is not nearly enough to compete with youth development on a global scale. Pay to play is ingrained in US soccer.
You work for the Union so I'm sure you know exactly how youth systems abroad work and how small time youth clubs thrive of transfer free trickling down to their level.
Posted on 2/14/17 at 8:08 am to StraightCashHomey21
You're absolutely right. My whole point though is that the MLS is a work in progress. I think anyone with half a brain can realize this is not as good as it will get. Garber is coming March 7th to meet with us, any questions I should ask him? Haha
Posted on 2/14/17 at 8:16 am to LSUButt
Well if you are talking about youth development ask about getting rid of pay to play 
Problem is USSF gets paid through all these travel leagues and fees.
When I played travel 20 years ago it was 1000 each for fall and spring seasons.
Problem is USSF gets paid through all these travel leagues and fees.
When I played travel 20 years ago it was 1000 each for fall and spring seasons.
Posted on 2/14/17 at 8:19 am to Draconian Sanctions
I want to agree with you on pro/rel because I think it makes every game more meaningful, as two bottom table teams have just as much to play for as two top of the table teams, but I really don't think the league and American sports fans are ready for that. The way American sports have been structured for a long time has conditioned American sports fans to see a divide between the top level, hell in college football even decent P5 teams draw magnitudes more coverage than good G5 teams because of the "top tier" vs. lower tiers.
You can correct me if I'm wrong, but clubs in Europe grew organically and locally, for the most part, so no matter what they have a loyal fan base whether they are playing in the EPL or the Championship or lower. In the US we don't have 100+ year old local clubs (outside of a few teams like the Cubs), and teams relocate all the time, and fan support is usually only tied to a team being the closest team to where you live, it's just how it works. If MLS tried to do pro/rel, and a team with a bunch of causal fans gets relegated, those fans will jump ship because their team is no longer a
'major league" team. It's hard enough to watch MLS games now, could you imagine the difficulty trying to watch a second division league, that would kill support.
You can correct me if I'm wrong, but clubs in Europe grew organically and locally, for the most part, so no matter what they have a loyal fan base whether they are playing in the EPL or the Championship or lower. In the US we don't have 100+ year old local clubs (outside of a few teams like the Cubs), and teams relocate all the time, and fan support is usually only tied to a team being the closest team to where you live, it's just how it works. If MLS tried to do pro/rel, and a team with a bunch of causal fans gets relegated, those fans will jump ship because their team is no longer a
'major league" team. It's hard enough to watch MLS games now, could you imagine the difficulty trying to watch a second division league, that would kill support.
Posted on 2/14/17 at 8:28 am to lionward2014
Pro/Rel would only work with MLS/MLS II
MLS would have to expand to about 36 to 40 teams for that to happen.
But no one is paying this absurd 200 million franchise fee for a club to dick around in the 2nd tier.
MLS would have to expand to about 36 to 40 teams for that to happen.
But no one is paying this absurd 200 million franchise fee for a club to dick around in the 2nd tier.
Posted on 2/14/17 at 8:40 am to cheesesteak501
That's true a deep World Cup run would help a lot
Posted on 2/14/17 at 8:41 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
But no one is paying this absurd 200 million franchise fee for a club to dick around in the 2nd tier.
Yep. Or one of the initial owners who has helped found the league, they will not accept being dropped down
Posted on 2/14/17 at 8:54 am to LSUButt
quote:
I think anyone with half a brain can realize this is not as good as it will get.
I just don't know that I really agree with this. It's equally as plausible to say we're currently in another soccer bubble like we've seen in the US on several occasions and the current USSF structure with a closed D1 league is capping our short and long term potential in the global market when that bubble pops.
Posted on 2/14/17 at 8:58 am to Draconian Sanctions
It probably doesn't help that Donovan retired, Jozy failed in England, and Jozy and Bradley play in fricking Canada.
Posted on 2/14/17 at 10:48 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I just don't know that I really agree with this
I don't know why you can't see this. The league is getting more money, which leads to better players, which leads to more people coming back out.
Our CBO meets with other CBO's from around the country in various sports. Almost all agree the MLS is on the rise. There's just no way it's not
Posted on 2/14/17 at 11:22 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Yeah follow Empty Seats on twitter during MLS season and get back to me on those numbers
So we're basing this off of a Twitter account with pictures instead of facts? Okay, this thread can be over now
Posted on 2/14/17 at 11:56 am to LSUButt
quote:
I don't know why you can't see this.
I think you're dramatically overstating the actual level of growth MLS has experienced in the last decade, outside of course of more billionaires buying into MLS/SUM for tax shelter purposes.
Growth in the domestic game should be booming right now way more than it is and the main reason for that is the closed system and USSF's protection of MLS.
Tell me this, why do we need a division 1 sanction if we're going to have a closed system? Imagine the AFL being labeled "minor league" by an official governing body of football back in the 50's. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?
Posted on 2/14/17 at 12:07 pm to Draconian Sanctions
This tax shelter thing again, that is something the poliboard would come up with, complete with link to obscure blog to back it up.
A lot of money being plopped down for an MLS team just so someone can get 0.35 on the dollar of tax loss. I'm sure the league is well structured but the owners are investing in these teams for future value, tax attributes are a consideration in every deal in business but the tail doesn't wag the dog
A lot of money being plopped down for an MLS team just so someone can get 0.35 on the dollar of tax loss. I'm sure the league is well structured but the owners are investing in these teams for future value, tax attributes are a consideration in every deal in business but the tail doesn't wag the dog
Posted on 2/14/17 at 3:25 pm to Draconian Sanctions
You're bringing up points that are irrelevant. There are many cities that do not have an MLS squad that could easily support it.
Why exactly should growth be BOOMING? It's growing...steadily and increasingly. The USL saw attendance grow 33% last year. Is that not a big growth?
You keep saying "we"...but clearly you do not support nor enjoy the MLS. I just don't get why you're actively trying to deny the growth of the MLS
Why exactly should growth be BOOMING? It's growing...steadily and increasingly. The USL saw attendance grow 33% last year. Is that not a big growth?
You keep saying "we"...but clearly you do not support nor enjoy the MLS. I just don't get why you're actively trying to deny the growth of the MLS
Posted on 2/14/17 at 5:22 pm to LSUButt
I'm not denying there's any growth, I'm just saying it's very overstated and I believe the structure of MLS is detrimental to the development of US soccer both at the club and international levels. You may think the points are irrelevant but I do not.
Normally I'd go into more detail but after the PSG match I'm way too happy to bother with MLS stuff right now. I'll catch you in my next thread on this.
Normally I'd go into more detail but after the PSG match I'm way too happy to bother with MLS stuff right now. I'll catch you in my next thread on this.
This post was edited on 2/14/17 at 5:38 pm
Posted on 2/14/17 at 6:15 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I'll catch you in my next thread on this.
Posted on 2/14/17 at 7:01 pm to Draconian Sanctions
With the way the USL is set up now a relegation system will happen in the U.S. game eventually, although I'm sure MLS team ownership will lobby against it.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 2:11 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Those are not how many people are going to these games. That's a dubious "paid" attendance number.
That's how attendance is calculated at every sporting event. No one announces an actual attendance.
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