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Message
re: Man City charged by Premier League
Posted on 2/6/23 at 3:41 pm to WhiteMandingo
Posted on 2/6/23 at 3:41 pm to WhiteMandingo
quote:
Make Haaland and kdb go to Chelsea
Y’all looking to frick it up a second time or what?
1
Posted on 2/6/23 at 6:20 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Doesn't make sense if they're not breaking the rules now, for extreme things like relegation. Fines? Sure.
Idk, if this is 9 years of basically financial cheating… they deserve to be relegated.
How are you paying managers through money coming from another club?
Posted on 2/6/23 at 8:17 pm to ButchJonesFB
This may be the only thing to unite Noel and Liam Gallagher.
Posted on 2/6/23 at 11:43 pm to WhiteMandingo
quote:
Haaland and kdb go to Chelsea
Cruel and unusual punishment. Besides, they are innocent.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 7:05 am to mizslu314
quote:
it'll be settled with just a fine. This is borderline none news.
So fining a club that can afford any $ amount you put in front of them? This does nothing. There has been evidence of fraud and misconduct from audits done and the club literally created fake linkedin accounts (which are now deleted) to make up a company in which they can funnel money to bump revenue. They reported numbers saying they grossed more revenue than Barcelona, Madrid, Man Utd, and Liverpool when their fanbase is not even close to the scale of those clubs world wide.
This is not a case of let's just fine them or give them a 15/20 point deduction. In my opinion, if these are allegations that can not be disputed, Man City should be removed from the league and relegated. It is a shame for fans of the club but it is not being run properly and the owners don't care as they were a big part of the plot to start the Super League where they can spend their money and not have any issues like this.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 8:15 am to ButchJonesFB
quote:
if these are allegations that can not be disputed, Man City should be removed from the league and relegated
So much jealousy.
quote:
but it is not being run properly
I don't think Man City has a very bad net the past few years. Seems to be run properly now.
The bigger issue is the barriers to entry for clubs trying to become big. If you're not a legacy club, it's almost impossible to become an elite club without just injecting money. FFP (and similar regulations) is meant to prohibit any new club from disrupting the old boys club.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 8:18 am to RemouladeSawce
quote:
I'm sure they're perfectly clean now.
Go look at their net spending the past 3-5 years.
quote:
Just needed to get some tomfoolery out of their system.
They had to work within a system built to prohibit them from becoming great. It's a shitty system only meant to protect legacy clubs (by both reigning in their idiotic spending and preventing any competition.
THAT has always been the real discussion re: Man City.
I remember when all the Man U fans would lose their shite at the spending years ago. They've been real quiet the past 3-4 years. Wonder why. Compare the net transfers of Man City and Man U over that time period. Who is the one displaying financial negligence?
Net spend the last 5 years
Man City sitting at #10
Chelsea have only spent £430M more and Man U £316M more over that same period. But Man City is the problem
This post was edited on 2/7/23 at 8:21 am
Posted on 2/7/23 at 8:48 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:I haven’t read all of the specifics so I’m genuinely asking, doesn’t this timeframe line up with when the investigation started?
Go look at their net spending the past 3-5 years.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 8:55 am to MOT
Yeah but their focus was in the past. I don't think there is any significant allegations relatively recently.
City would be idiots to prop up fake revenues when they didn't need to (due to low net spending these days), so I'm assuming they're straight. Once they reorganized with their new vision (and with Pep), they have been a model franchise.
Again, just look at the net spending and compare it to clubs who can't even make the CL. They have been out spent by historic big spenders like Arsenal, West Ham, Newcastle, Aston Villa, and fricking Wolverhampton
We're not even talking "big boys" level of net transfer spending. We're talking "bouncing up and down from the GOATship" range of spending.
City would be idiots to prop up fake revenues when they didn't need to (due to low net spending these days), so I'm assuming they're straight. Once they reorganized with their new vision (and with Pep), they have been a model franchise.
Again, just look at the net spending and compare it to clubs who can't even make the CL. They have been out spent by historic big spenders like Arsenal, West Ham, Newcastle, Aston Villa, and fricking Wolverhampton
We're not even talking "big boys" level of net transfer spending. We're talking "bouncing up and down from the GOATship" range of spending.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 9:09 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
They had to work within a system built to prohibit them from becoming great. It's a shitty system only meant to protect legacy clubs (by both reigning in their idiotic spending and preventing any competition.
The problem is, you trade one tyrant for another. You claim that City made the league more competitive, which is objectively false. I'm not disputing that smaller clubs should have the opportunity to spend more money to compete, but unfettered spending hurts the game and puts clubs in danger of going to admin when their owners eventually pull out and call those loans in.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 9:10 am to BleedPurpleGold
quote:
You claim that City made the league more competitive,
That was not my argument.
quote:
I'm not disputing that smaller clubs should have the opportunity to spend more money to compete, but unfettered spending hurts the game and puts clubs in danger of going to admin when their owners eventually pull out and call those loans in.
Was this ever a real threat with City, specifically?
Posted on 2/7/23 at 9:30 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That was not my argument.
My bad, that was Ryne.
quote:
Was this ever a real threat with City, specifically?
I have no idea. Possibly. I can't speculate on whether CFGL selling City would put the club dangerously in the red. But it doesn't matter. You can't apply bespoke financial rules to certain clubs and not to others. Rules apply to everyone equally.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 9:31 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:That’s what I’m asking, are there reasons for that? If the investigation began 4-5 years ago, would it stand to reason that a) City stopped whatever they were doing knowing they were under investigation and/or b) the investigation was only looking at what had happened to that point and not reviewing what was happening in “real time”?
Yeah but their focus was in the past. I don't think there is any significant allegations relatively recently.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 9:34 am to MOT
Someone postulated earlier in this thread the investigators haven't made it that far, yet.
City beat UEFA in court and I have little doubt they will win enough against the EPL to avoid any major punishment.
Some solicitors are about to make $$$$
City beat UEFA in court and I have little doubt they will win enough against the EPL to avoid any major punishment.
Some solicitors are about to make $$$$
Posted on 2/7/23 at 9:38 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
City beat UEFA in court
City won on what amounts to a statute of limitations argument. I'm not saying they won't win this, but the merits will be considered this time.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 9:50 am to BleedPurpleGold
This is from Kaveh Solhekol of Sky Sports:
City can not just simply "beat them in court" and there no limitations on when evidence can be used as in the 5 year rule with UEFA.
This also has nothing to do with jealousy for me. I simply feel as if Man City owners have started a precedent in this league that is a terrible path to go down and City owners just don't care. The competitive balance has been ruined and they have played by different rules than everyone else. They want a super league so they can make the rules and it is evident with all of this. If they are not given harsh punishments, the league will never be the same again and that's a shame.
quote:
Can City appeal?
The independent commission will be formed of three members, who will be selected by Murray Rosen KC, the chair of the Premier League's judicial panel.
The three-person panel can include any of the 15 members of the judicial panel, as well as non-members.
Once a judgement is made, the Premier League and Man City will be able to appeal - although it cannot be taken to the CAS.
Instead, Rosen would appoint an appeal panel made up of new members. There are currently six members of the Premier League appeal panel.
City can not just simply "beat them in court" and there no limitations on when evidence can be used as in the 5 year rule with UEFA.
This also has nothing to do with jealousy for me. I simply feel as if Man City owners have started a precedent in this league that is a terrible path to go down and City owners just don't care. The competitive balance has been ruined and they have played by different rules than everyone else. They want a super league so they can make the rules and it is evident with all of this. If they are not given harsh punishments, the league will never be the same again and that's a shame.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 1:26 pm to ButchJonesFB
quote:
I simply feel as if Man City owners have started a precedent in this league that is a terrible path to go down
You mean allowing non-legacy clubs a chance to win?
quote:
If they are not given harsh punishments, the league will never be the same again
So dramatic.
The TV money has 100x the impact Man City having rich owners does. Again, go look at the net transfer rankings over the past 5 years. Wolverhampton has spent more (net) in the transfer market than Man City. You think Man City using creative accounting so their rich owner could spend its money is a bigger impact on the league?
Posted on 2/7/23 at 2:08 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The TV money has 100x the impact Man City having rich owners does.
Then why does City have a stranglehold on the league? The foreign broadcasting money is split equally. The domestic split is not equal, but City have long enjoyed the lion's share of the domestic money (at least during the period we're discussing). If the TV money has a greater impact, it still favors City.
Also, more importantly, I'm not sure why you're cherry picking the last 5 years when the investigation goes back to 2009 and forward to 2018. City's net spend in 2019 was highest in world football at -1.2 billion. Admirable that they sold off their players to drop since that time, but during the time period in question they are by far the worst offenders in the net spend category.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 3:11 pm to BleedPurpleGold
quote:
Then why does City have a stranglehold on the league?
Better coaching, scouting, acquisition, etc.
quote:
The foreign broadcasting money is split equally. The domestic split is not equal, but City have long enjoyed the lion's share of the domestic money (at least during the period we're discussing). If the TV money has a greater impact, it still favors City.
Again, look at net spending the past 5 years.
quote:
I'm not sure why you're cherry picking the last 5 years
I already explained they had to pay a ton to catch up to the advantages of the legacy squads. They are there now, and out-managing the shite out of them. Goes to show you what can happen if the league allows a team to catch up.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 3:25 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I already explained they had to pay a ton to catch up to the advantages of the legacy squads. They are there now, and out-managing the shite out of them. Goes to show you what can happen if the league allows a team to catch up.
I'm not sure they're being outmanaged, as much as out-bought. It remains to be seen what Pep can do with a squad that isn't three players deep at every position and starting the best first 11 in the world. There isn't a sample size in which he's had to manage anything less than that, so genuinely don't know.
I'll admit that I think there needs to be some sort of mechanism for the smaller clubs to catch up to the historical top 4-6. I do think City went overboard with it, and we've traded one inoperable sporting financial system for another.
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