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Started By
Message
History lesson on "South"
Posted on 10/13/11 at 8:59 am
Posted on 10/13/11 at 8:59 am
1st states to Secede:
1-South Carolina (December 20, 1860)
2-Mississippi (January 9, 1861)
3-Florida (January 10, 1861)
4-Alabama (January 11, 1861)
5-Georgia (January 19, 1861)
6-Louisiana (January 26, 1861)
7-Texas (February 1, 1861)
Next 4:
8-Virginia (April 17, 1861)
9-Arkansas (May 6, 1861)
10-Tennessee (May 7, 1861)
11-North Carolina (May 20, 1861)
States Claimed by Confederate States (pwnd)
Oklahoma
Mizzouri
Kentucky
West Virginia
What does this have to do with Conf Exp? Nothing really. Just found it interesting. I think SEC should target states in original 11 as it seems to fit the "footprint" best.
map of CSA
1-South Carolina (December 20, 1860)
2-Mississippi (January 9, 1861)
3-Florida (January 10, 1861)
4-Alabama (January 11, 1861)
5-Georgia (January 19, 1861)
6-Louisiana (January 26, 1861)
7-Texas (February 1, 1861)
Next 4:
8-Virginia (April 17, 1861)
9-Arkansas (May 6, 1861)
10-Tennessee (May 7, 1861)
11-North Carolina (May 20, 1861)
States Claimed by Confederate States (pwnd)
Oklahoma
Mizzouri
Kentucky
West Virginia
What does this have to do with Conf Exp? Nothing really. Just found it interesting. I think SEC should target states in original 11 as it seems to fit the "footprint" best.
map of CSA
6
Posted on 10/13/11 at 9:08 am to TopWaterTiger
The CSA hardly "pwned" Kentucky or Missouri. I don't know about Missouri, but Kentucky had a Confederate government, a Confederate capital, a seat at the Confederate Congress and one of the stars on the battle flag is for Kentucky. If anyone pwned us it was the Union because they occupied Kentucky before we had a chance to secede. Lincoln was quoted as saying if they Kentucky seceded the Union might as well surrender. Louisville was one of the biggest and most important cities in the nation at that point, but it was also basically Kentucky's entire population as well, so the Union easily came in and occupied the smaller towns and rural areas due to pure numbers.
And the war argument is dumb. Virginia today has more in common with Delaware than any Southern state, so I'm not sure why the war is used as a measuring stick.
And the war argument is dumb. Virginia today has more in common with Delaware than any Southern state, so I'm not sure why the war is used as a measuring stick.
This post was edited on 10/13/11 at 9:15 am
Posted on 10/13/11 at 9:14 am to busey
Kentucky was largely pro-union. There is a neo-confederate myth that Kentucky was pro-Confederacy and that it was a Union invasion that prevented secession.
The secessionists in KY were a minority and the confederate government was in name only. It was like the Polish Government in Exile during the cold war. The secessionists never had the numbers or will to secede in KY.
The secessionists in KY were a minority and the confederate government was in name only. It was like the Polish Government in Exile during the cold war. The secessionists never had the numbers or will to secede in KY.
Posted on 10/13/11 at 9:16 am to TopWaterTiger
I agree that the SEC should stay in the old CSA states. There is a sense of history and belonging (though on the wrong side) that people from other states like Mizzou or West Virginia just won't get. The Lost Cause expresses itself through SEC FB and states like MO and others won't fit in well.
It makes as much sense as the Big Ten expanding into Tennessee or Georgia.
It makes as much sense as the Big Ten expanding into Tennessee or Georgia.
Posted on 10/13/11 at 9:17 am to Ralph_Wiggum
Regardless of anything that happened 150 years ago, Kentucky today is just as Southern as Tennessee. Virginia now has more in common with Maryland or Delaware, and Florida is New York south so who cares?
This post was edited on 10/13/11 at 9:42 am
Posted on 10/13/11 at 9:34 am to TopWaterTiger
Oh lawd, not this shite.
Posted on 10/13/11 at 10:04 am to AUCE05
As long as we're not totally going into left field ("let's consider Maryland!"), I'm pretty open-minded about this. I'd take Oklahoma in a heartbeat, frankly.
Posted on 10/13/11 at 10:09 am to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:Actually it is the other way around. If Bragg had not taken the initiative to invade Kentucky after the retreat from Corinth,it is very possible that Kentucky would have been much friendlier to the CSA. It was Bragg's invasion (culminating with the Battle of Perryville) that swung general feelings in the state against the Confederacy because it brought the war into Kentucky and it also increased the amount of crops and livestock lost (due to both armies foraging as they moved northward).
There is a neo-confederate myth that Kentucky was pro-Confederacy and that it was a Union invasion that prevented secession.
Also, as was said before, Kentucky and Missouri sent representatives to the Confederate Congress (hence the 12th and 13th stars on the battle flag and the national flags), and Missouri had a Confederate government as well, but I believe they spent most of the war meeting in Texas.
As for Oklahoma, it was not yet a state (statehood came in 1907) and in fact was considered "Indian Territory". The Confederates considered all territories of the United States south of the Missouri Compromise line, which included a large portion of Indian Territory and a good deal of the residents of Indian Territory sided with the CSA due to their distrust of the federal government. Stand Watie, the last Confederate general to surrender, was a Cherokee from Indian Territory.
Posted on 10/13/11 at 10:23 am to TopWaterTiger
You have to keep that one county in Alabama grey b/c it seceded from Alabama to rejoin the Union.
Posted on 10/13/11 at 10:45 am to busey
quote:
Virginia now has more in common with Maryland or Delaware, and Florida is New York south so who cares?
Virginia is now big into lacrosse. I believe that compromises a fair amount of southern identity.
Posted on 10/13/11 at 11:09 am to TopWaterTiger
quote:
(pwnd)
The Confederacy claiming West Virginia would have been about as legit as me claiming Louisiana as New Fierceyville.
The Confederacy never owned (or pwnd) West Virginia. West Virginia seceded from Virginia because even those backhill rednecks were smart enough to know the difference between right and wrong.
Posted on 10/13/11 at 12:24 pm to PJinAtl
quote:
a good deal of the residents of Indian Territory sided with the CSA due to their distrust of the federal government
Not entirely true. The Union Army recruited three regiments of Cherokees, Creeks and Seminoles and occupied most of Indian Territoy after 1863. Many of the natives resented the southerners who had kicked them out of their homes and expelled them from their homelands more than the federal government that was at least trying to protect them. Like everything else in that war, it was pretty complicated.
Posted on 10/13/11 at 12:53 pm to TopWaterTiger
Times change Holmes. It's 2011. Southern folks can do math and shite now. Get over it. It's not the Confederate Conference.
Posted on 10/13/11 at 1:33 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
I agree that the SEC should stay in the old CSA states. There is a sense of history and belonging (though on the wrong side) that people from other states like Mizzou or West Virginia just won't get. The Lost Cause expresses itself through SEC FB and states like MO and others won't fit in well.
It makes as much sense as the Big Ten expanding into Tennessee or Georgia.
yeah this was basically my only point! But you said it better.
Posted on 10/13/11 at 3:57 pm to busey
quote:
The CSA hardly "pwned" Kentucky or Missouri. Missouri had a Confederate government, a Confederate capital, a seat at the Confederate Congress and was 12th of the 13 stars on the battle flag. Kentucky was 13th. If anyone pwned us it was the Union because they occupied Missouri and Kentucky before we had a chance to secede.
FIFY
Posted on 10/13/11 at 3:59 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
There is a sense of history and belonging (though on the wrong side) that people from other states like Mizzou or West Virginia just won't get.
You obviously have spent no time in Missouri other than maybe St. Louis or Kansas City.
Posted on 10/13/11 at 4:01 pm to PJinAtl
quote:
Missouri had a Confederate government as well, but I believe they spent most of the war meeting in Texas.
Marshall, Texas, to be precise.
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