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Message
Fill me in on our draft pick, i'm lost
Posted on 5/21/14 at 7:24 am
Posted on 5/21/14 at 7:24 am
I don't follow the team as much as I'd like to but I was wondering what happened to our pick. Didn't we have a Conditional draft pick if we tanked? Where does this leave us picking now?
3
Posted on 5/21/14 at 7:35 am to Relham10
No pick.
We essentially traded last years #6 overall and this year's #10 overall for Jrue Holiday and Pierre Jackson.
Jrue Holiday is a legit all around young PG with an all star appearance already. I think it was a good move. Without the freak injuries we would have been an even stronger team than we were. I personally wasn't interested in the guys outside of Embiid, Wiggins, and Parker anyways. Demps had a protection for the pick in case we ended up with a pick to get them.
We essentially traded last years #6 overall and this year's #10 overall for Jrue Holiday and Pierre Jackson.
Jrue Holiday is a legit all around young PG with an all star appearance already. I think it was a good move. Without the freak injuries we would have been an even stronger team than we were. I personally wasn't interested in the guys outside of Embiid, Wiggins, and Parker anyways. Demps had a protection for the pick in case we ended up with a pick to get them.
Posted on 5/21/14 at 8:09 am to Relham10
gone
Posted on 5/21/14 at 8:18 am to Relham10
quote:
Didn't we have a Conditional draft pick if we tanked?
It was top 5 protected and we got the 10th pick. Not being very good thanks to injuries isn't the same as tanking.
quote:
Where does this leave us picking now?
As part of the deal where we traded Nerlens Noel and this years pick for Jrue Holiday, we also got a 2nd round pick last year we used on Pierre Jackson. It's been speculated from the time he was drafted that he might never suit up for the Pelicans and would always be traded. The Pelicans interviewed a few players at the combine with 2nd round grades, Patric Young of Florida and Thanasis Antetokounmpo, brother of Bucks rookie Giannis Antetokounmpo. Young is an undersized but physical big, Antetokounmpo is a raw athletictic freak SF. It could just be due dilligence, or it could be that Demps knows that turning Pierre Jackson into a type of player we don't have is better than Pierre Jackson rotting on the bench behind 6 other guards.
Posted on 5/21/14 at 8:42 am to TigerinATL
What he said.
Posted on 5/22/14 at 10:52 am to Colonel Flagg
quote:
Jrue Holiday is a legit all around young PG with an all star appearance already. I think it was a good move.
Completely disagree. Although he had some good stats, Jrue was only an all-star because Rose and Rondo were hurt that year. He is a "middle-of-the-pack" point guard IMO. This trade will haunt us for years.
This post was edited on 5/22/14 at 10:55 am
Posted on 5/22/14 at 12:03 pm to LSUDairyhick
quote:
Completely disagree. Although he had some good stats, Jrue was only an all-star because Rose and Rondo were hurt that year. He is a "middle-of-the-pack" point guard IMO. This trade will haunt us for years.
Did you watch his progression from the beginning of the year to before he got hurt?
Not only is he one of the best defensive Pg's in the league, he distributed well, created space, and was an above average spot up 3 point shooter.
The trade was justified IMO. It just looks like Philly got the better deal because Jrue missed a chunk of games due to injury.
Please don't get on the "we could have drafted MCW instead" train either bc no1 thought he would perform as well as he did.
Posted on 5/22/14 at 12:25 pm to LSUDairyhick
quote:
Although he had some good stats, Jrue was only an all-star because Rose and Rondo were hurt that year. He is a "middle-of-the-pack" point guard IMO. This trade will haunt us for years.
He's one of the best defenders in the NBA and has a complete offensive game. Saying he's not an all-star caliber player because rose/rondo were hurt one year is a foolish argument.
I highly doubt trading a center with injury concerns and a role player will "haunt us for years".
An we will probably flip jackson for another asset as well.
This post was edited on 5/22/14 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 5/22/14 at 12:48 pm to Doink
quote:
Please don't get on the "we could have drafted MCW instead" train either bc no1 thought he would perform as well as he did.
Oh now thats just not true. Tons of us were hoping for him.
Posted on 5/22/14 at 1:51 pm to LosLobos111
quote:
Saying he's not an all-star caliber player because rose/rondo were hurt one year is a foolish argument.
How is that a foolish argument?
He's saying he's not a top PG and he's not. He's middle of the road; right there with Jeff Teague.
Posted on 5/22/14 at 4:58 pm to SouthMSReb
Jrue/Teague aren't middle of the road PGs 
Did I say he's top 5? No but he's a very good PG that's an all star talent.
Not sure why some of you people think that giving up nerlens noel and a role player is some crime.
Get over it
Did I say he's top 5? No but he's a very good PG that's an all star talent.
Not sure why some of you people think that giving up nerlens noel and a role player is some crime.
Get over it
Posted on 5/23/14 at 11:34 am to LosLobos111
quote:
Jrue/Teague aren't middle of the road PGs
PG's definitely better than Jrue(in no particular order):
1. C. Paul
2. T. Parker
3. S. Curry
4. R. Westbrook
5. D. Lillard
6. J. Wall
7. K. Irving
8. D. Rose (when healthy-JH not healthy so fair)
9. R. Rondo
10. D. Williams
11. G. Dragic
12. J. Teague
PG's in Jrue's class (but are debatable):
13. E. Bledsoe
14. K. Walker
15. M. Conley
16. K. Lowry (some would consider him a 2)
17. M. Ellis
18. T. Lawson
19. R. Rubio
20. B. Jennings
21. B. Knight
22. MCW(prob not yet, but the potential is there)
IMO he is somewhere b/w 16-20.
Even if you believe he is a little higher (he's definitely not top 12), do you really think it was worth giving up Noel, and a potential top 5 pick in arguably the greatest draft of all time for a PG in that tier?
I honestly think Demps was under pressure from owners and chose the "win now" mentality which is going to hurt us for many years.
P.S. I would say 16-20 is "middle-of-the-pack"
quote:
Not sure why some of you people think that giving up nerlens noel and a role player is some crime.
Noel and some role player? Really??
You honestly think Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Exum, Smart, Randle, Vonleh are will be role players?
{That is where we would be drafting without Holliday (and a hurt Noel) this year.}
That's just bad judgement.
Posted on 5/23/14 at 11:41 am to LSUDairyhick
quote:
a potential top 5 pick
The pick was top 5 protected so that's not even possible. If you're saying the team would have had a worse record than they did that's very unlikely. No Jrue = No Reke = the same team from the previous season (Vasquez and Lopez) plus enough cap space to land a guy like Al Jefferson or Paul Millsap.
Improved AD + 64 games from Gordon + impact FA easily equals or even betters the 7 win increase the team had.
quote:
You honestly think Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Exum, Smart, Randle, Vonleh are will be role players?
Again, if the team had been that bad they would have been able to keep the pick. Now I get why so many people don't like the Holiday trade, they think it's something that it isn't.
Posted on 5/23/14 at 2:26 pm to LSUDairyhick
quote:
1. C. Paul(sure)
2. T. Parker(yes)
3. S. Curry(yes)
4. R. Westbrook(yes)
5. D. Lillard(jrue is a better defender but OK)
6. J. Wall(yes but not by a mile)
7. K. Irving(offensively yes but jrue is a better defender/arguably better passer and has leadership)
8. D. Rose (when healthy-JH not healthy so fair)(Has had 2 major surguries)
9. R. Rondo(Jrue is a better scorer)
10. D. Williams(maybe)
11. G. Dragic(jrue is a better defender but they're close)
12. J. Teague(Tossup but I'd rather jrue)
quote:
13. E. Bledsoe(Fairly close)
14. K. Walker(took a step back)
15. M. Conley(for now yeah but jrue is 3 years younger)
16. K. Lowry (some would consider him a 2)
17. M. Ellis(not a PG)
18. T. Lawson(arguable)
19. R. Rubio(lol NO)
20. B. Jennings(jrue is a better defender/leader)
21. B. Knight(NO)
22. MCW(prob not yet, but the potential is there)(until he can shoot,NO)
quote:
Even if you believe he is a little higher (he's definitely not top 12), do you really think it was worth giving up Noel, and a potential top 5 pick in arguably the greatest draft of all time for a PG in that tier?
Noel hasn't played yet and is an unknown. And contrary to beilef this is a fairly overrated draft after the top 5 or so. This is not the 2003/08 draft.
That pick would've been around 10th if we would've kept noel or drafted someone else anyway(pels only drafted noel for philly)
quote:
I honestly think Demps was under pressure from owners and chose the "win now" mentality which is going to hurt us for many years.
:Theskyisfallinggif:
quote:
Noel and some role player? Really??
You honestly think Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Exum, Smart, Randle, Vonleh are will be role players?
{That is where we would be drafting without Holliday (and a hurt Noel) this year.}
That's just bad judgement.
As I stated above,We would be picking around 9th-10th and you're chances of finding an impact diminish a good deal.
I never said anything about those guys specifically.
ETA: also agree with what ATL said and he probably explained better
This post was edited on 5/23/14 at 2:29 pm
Posted on 5/23/14 at 2:33 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
If you're saying the team would have had a worse record than they did that's very unlikely
How is this very unlikely? Please explain...
If we don't make the trade, instead of having Jrue (played 34 games), we would have Noel (played 0 games). And you think its very unlikely we would have had a worse record??
So you're saying the 34 games Jrue played in had no impact on our record.
I think its fair to say if you removed Jrue from the lineup this year we would have had a worse record.
quote:
No Jrue = No Reke
Why?
The Reke pickup and Jrue trade have nothing to do with each other.
quote:
Now I get why so many people don't like the Holiday trade, they think it's something that it isn't.
I know exactly what it was... Noel and a top 5 protected 2014 draft pick for Jrue Holliday and a 2nd rounder.
quote:
Again, if the team had been that bad they would have been able to keep the pick.
All I'm saying is... without Jrue, we would have been worse.
Therefore...we would have had a better draft pick (In a great draft class). Combine that with Noel and Davis down low and Reke and Ryno. Could you imagine Parker/ Wiggins/ Exum with that squad?
That's a championship in the future.
We have a solid young core right now, just not a championship caliber team. I just have a feeling by the time AD's contract is up, he will move on in pursuit of that ring. (see CP3)
Posted on 5/23/14 at 2:39 pm to LSUDairyhick
quote:
How is this very unlikely? Please explain...
If we don't make the trade, instead of having Jrue (played 34 games), we would have Noel (played 0 games). And you think its very unlikely we would have had a worse record??
So you're saying the 34 games Jrue played in had no impact on our record.
I think its fair to say if you removed Jrue from the lineup this year we would have had a worse record.
You completely missed the point. What would've stopped us from signing Jefferson or millsap? Them plus another FA+the improvement from AD is arguably just as good.
quote:
I know exactly what it was... Noel and a top 5 protected 2014 draft pick for Jrue Holliday and a 2nd rounder.
Did you not read his other points?
quote:
Therefore...we would have had a better draft pick (In a great draft class). Combine that with Noel and Davis down low and Reke and Ryno. Could you imagine Parker/ Wiggins/ Exum with that squad?
That's a championship in the future.
We have a solid young core right now, just not a championship caliber team. I just have a feeling by the time AD's contract is up, he will move on in pursuit of that ring. (see CP3)
Not sure why you think noel is some superstar when he hasn't played an NBA minute and you're overrating the draft like most.
And no AD is here until 2019 at least so....
Posted on 5/23/14 at 3:23 pm to LSUDairyhick
quote:
Why?
The Reke pickup and Jrue trade have nothing to do with each other.
Because Tyreke said us getting Holiday and having an exciting young core was part of the reason he chose us. I don't know how much money Detroit was willing to offer, but if we don't trade for Jrue and Detroit is in the ballpark money wise I think Tyreke would have ended up there.
At the very least without Holiday you sign Tyreke and still have Vasquez, Lopez and cap space to fill some other holes, say a guy like Demare Carrol that can stuff the stat sheet and hit 3s at an adequate rate.
So same roster as last year but adding:
Tyreke
Eric Gordon playing 64 games
Decent 3/D SF
AD becoming a dominant player
The team won 27 games last year, the roster this year would obviously be much improved. The 9th worst record this year was Detroit with 29 wins, a 2 win improvement over the Pelicans record last year. So all this new lineup above has to do is get 3 more wins than last year and we end up in the EXACT SAME #10 position we ended the season on.
quote:
Therefore...we would have had a better draft pick
No you wouldn't have. If the pick was 5th or worst we'd have kept the pick. You're arguing we could have been 6-9 and gotten:
quote:
Could you imagine Parker/ Wiggins/ Exum with that squad?
Those guys are likely going top 5. Why are you not acknowledging that the pick was top 5 protected? You're comparing the value of Holiday to the value of a scenario that is literally impossible to have happen. Do you not understand what draft pick protection means? It's ok if you don't, it's been asked a lot. If we had won the lottery, or finished with a record bad enough to have a top 5 pick, we'd have kept our pick and Philly would have gotten our 2015 top 5 protected pick instead.
The team DID NOT trade Noel and Wiggins/Embid/Parker/etc for Holiday. They traded Noel and Saric/Harris/McDermott. If Demps hadn't put protection on the pick and we had won the lottery (like the #1 pick the Clippers gave to the Cavs a few years back) Demps would be getting raked over the coals by everyone one this site right now for not protecting the pick. Because #6 last year and top 3 this year is bad value for Holiday, but again, that is absolutely not what was traded.
This post was edited on 5/23/14 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 5/24/14 at 1:20 pm to TigerinATL
My last words on this topic:
IMO the Pelicans would have been Better off without the jrue trade. That is it. Yall just assume we would have gotten a FA like millsap. IMO If we didnt make the trade we would have been a lot worse and gotten a top 5 pick which could have changed the course of our franchise. l wouldn't have traded what we did for Westbrook and he's way better than jrue. And yall keep saying... hes a good defender. Hahaha that's just funny. And the top point guards like lillard aren't?? Thats just crazy. We screwed up.
IMO the Pelicans would have been Better off without the jrue trade. That is it. Yall just assume we would have gotten a FA like millsap. IMO If we didnt make the trade we would have been a lot worse and gotten a top 5 pick which could have changed the course of our franchise. l wouldn't have traded what we did for Westbrook and he's way better than jrue. And yall keep saying... hes a good defender. Hahaha that's just funny. And the top point guards like lillard aren't?? Thats just crazy. We screwed up.
Posted on 5/24/14 at 1:46 pm to LSUDairyhick
Being stuck in the lottery forever is stupid. They made a move for proven talent. Last year's draft was straight garbage and MCW won ROY. He is nothing more than a role player.
Posted on 5/24/14 at 5:54 pm to LSUDairyhick
quote:
IMO the Pelicans would have been Better off without the jrue trade. That is it. Yall just assume we would have gotten a FA like millsap.
We would've had money to offer him or anyone else. You're just as guilty for assuming we'd have a top 5 pick.
quote:
IMO If we didnt make the trade we would have been a lot worse and gotten a top 5 pick which could have changed the course of our franchise.
We won 27 games with a roster that missed a good bit of games(though not as much as this year) and this is without the improvment of AD/Rivers and the addition of any FAs. I don't know why you'd assume we'd be worse.
quote:
l wouldn't have traded what we did for Westbrook and he's way better than jrue. And yall keep saying... hes a good defender. Hahaha that's just funny. And the top point guards like lillard aren't?? Thats just crazy. We screwed up.
This isn't even worth responding to
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