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Message
Pool legal question
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:15 am
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:15 am
Im purchasing a home in Louisiana with a pool. It has a wooden fence surrounding the pool. Do I need to lock the gates? Do I need to put no trespassing signs? Basically what do I have to do to protect myself.
6
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:21 am to Bow dude72
I don't know about the legal issues specifically, but when we purchased our home with a pool, one of the things our first homeowners' insurer did was send someone to "inspect the house." One of the things on their checklist was whether the pool was fenced to keep the general public out and whether the gates were locked.
BTW, it's a good practice to keep the gates locked when the pool is not in use.
BTW, it's a good practice to keep the gates locked when the pool is not in use.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 12:09 pm to TBoy
Thanks
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:01 pm to TBoy
quote:
BTW, it's a good practice to keep the gates locked when the pool is not in use.
incorrect. its not like the neighborhood teens wont simply jump the fence instead.
what i did was leave my gates unlocked (i have 3 entrances to the pool) and install zwave sensors on the gates painted to match the black metal and installed down low so nobody will notice them.
this way they'll just use the gate (path of least resistance) and i get an alert on my phone from my bed and can go see what's up before some dumbass drowns in my pool and i get sued into oblivion.
also nice to have when you're out of town.
just a suggestion.
This post was edited on 2/20/20 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:10 pm to CAD703X
quote:
what i did was leave my gates unlocked (i have 3 entrances to the pool) and install zwave sensors on the gates painted to match the black metal and installed down low so nobody will notice them.
this way they'll just use the gate (path of least resistance) and i get an alert on my phone from my bed and can go see what's up before some dumbass drowns in my pool and i get sued into oblivion.
This makes it sounds like you're accepting responsibility for the safety of trespassers in your pool which sounds like you're willingly accepting liability for something that happens to them.
If you lock the gates and take other steps to deter trespassers, it's easier to argue that you're not liable because you've taken reasonable steps to prevent trespassers from entering.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:13 pm to CAD703X
quote:
also nice to have when you're out of town.
So you intentionally leave the gates to your pool unlocked when you are out of town? I assume they are also unlocked while you are at work. Enjoy the lawsuit if God forbid an accident happens.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:15 pm to CAD703X
quote:
CAD703X
You've managed to substitute sound reason with technology and more crap on your house. Not surprising.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:43 pm to MikeBRLA
quote:
So you intentionally leave the gates to your pool unlocked when you are out of town? I assume they are also unlocked while you are at work. Enjoy the lawsuit if God forbid an accident happens.
show me the law that requires pool gates with latches to also be locked with a padlock at all times
i love how ya'll think a locked gate somehow protects you legally from trespassers breaking in and jumping in your pool.
y'all got 20 foot oiled-down fences around your pools?
law requires fence meet certain standards to prevent CHILDREN from gaining access, not the dumbass teenagers sneaking around at midnight.
quote:
Because a pool is considered part of the property it’s located on, premises liability rules will typically apply in a pool injury lawsuit.
“Premises liability” is the short-hand term for the set of laws used to determine who (if anyone) is liable when a particular condition or use of a building, land or other premises causes an injury.
Although the rules vary somewhat from state to state, premises liability usually recognizes three different types of “entrants” on the land (trespassers, licensees and invitees) and different degrees of care owed by the owner to each type of entrant. Although the degree of care may shift depending on the entrant, and even in those states that no longer distinguish among categories entrants, the pool owner’s duty is broadly stated as the duty to make the pool reasonably safe for anticipated use.
Patrons of pools that are open to the public, whether for a fee or free of charge, are usually classified as “invitees.” Pool owners are under a duty to do a reasonable job maintaining and repairing the pool so that invitees are not injured.
Social guests using a pool on private property are usually classified as “licensees.” Pool owners are under a duty to warn licensees of dangers that are not obvious to the average person.
A pool owner does not owe a trespasser a duty of care, other than to refrain from causing the trespasser intentional harm. A major exception to this rule is when the trespasser is a child.
This post was edited on 2/20/20 at 1:56 pm
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:50 pm to MikeBRLA
quote:
So you intentionally leave the gates to your pool unlocked when you are out of town? I assume they are also unlocked while you are at work. Enjoy the lawsuit if God forbid an accident happens.
asked and answered above.
i still maintain i'd rather know if someone is sneaking into my pool because the gate sensor went off rather than find them floating facedown when i get back from vacation because they jumped the fence and nobody knew they were in there.
to each their own, though.
eta in TN any pool built after 2011 also requires a sensor be installed that triggers an alarm if something falls into the pool > 15 lbs but mine was built in the 1980s so i don't have this.
This post was edited on 2/20/20 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:51 pm to Motorboat
quote:
You've managed to substitute sound reason with technology and more crap on your house. Not surprising.
and you (clearly not a pool owner) are clueless of the law.
Not surprising.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 2:31 pm to CAD703X
quote:
show me the law
You kind of showed yourself. The info you quote makes distinctions between invitees, to whom a duty of care is owed, and trespassers, to whom no such duty is owed.
By not locking your gates, there’s an argument that you’re inviting the teenagers to use your pool. Especially if they come to regularly use the pool because they learn it’s not locked.
I like the sensor idea but that doesn’t eliminate the need to lock the gate. I have a Ring video doorbell but I still lock my doors. A pool security system using both would be ideal.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 2:37 pm to Bow dude72
You should make sure the fence and gates are in good working order. Keep the pool locked. No trespassing signs are probably unnecessary unless you later realize that people are trespassing.
Basically, it needs to be clear to anyone who walks up that the pool is not open admission.
For children, a pool can be what the law calls an “attractive nuisance,” which can make the homeowner responsible for trespassers’ injuries. Don’t let neighborhood children use your pool without your presence. If that means adding sensor or video surveillance, consider those options.
To start I would wait and see if there are any trespassing issues.
Basically, it needs to be clear to anyone who walks up that the pool is not open admission.
For children, a pool can be what the law calls an “attractive nuisance,” which can make the homeowner responsible for trespassers’ injuries. Don’t let neighborhood children use your pool without your presence. If that means adding sensor or video surveillance, consider those options.
To start I would wait and see if there are any trespassing issues.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 2:50 pm to mmiller52
quote:
Especially if they come to regularly use the pool because they learn it’s not locked.
nobody uses our pool unless invited, period.
i'm pretty sure there's not a pool owner out there who has a different policy and if i did catch someone i would immediately get in touch with their parents.
if my gates were locked and they jumped the fence i wouldn't know they had snuck in. our house is 4200sf on one level and the pool is on the side of our house furthest from our bedrooms. an entire herd of elephants jumping in the pool wouldn't wake me up. i'm not willing to risk someone sneaking in without my knowledge.
believe it or not, i thought this through and discussed it with an attorney when we were thinking of buying a house that came with a pool because the prospect of being responsible for a swimming pool scared me to death.
this is regulation pool fencing:
you still think putting a lock on the gate is going to do anything?This post was edited on 2/20/20 at 2:57 pm
Posted on 2/20/20 at 9:10 pm to Bow dude72
quote:
Basically what do I have to do to protect myself.
Insurance, lots of insurance. That is the only thing that you can do to protect yourself.
Posted on 2/21/20 at 6:40 am to Bow dude72
When I had a house with a pool, the city where I lived required the fence gates to have auto-closers. The gates would swing shut and latch but there was no legal requirement to lock the gates.
There were lots of houses with pools and a neighborhood pool, too, so the odds of a break-in by teens was lessened.
There were lots of houses with pools and a neighborhood pool, too, so the odds of a break-in by teens was lessened.
Posted on 2/21/20 at 6:44 am to TBoy
quote:
BTW, it's a good practice to keep the gates locked when the pool is not in use.
This. Also having a pool gives you a ready water source for fire protection which had offset insuring the pool. Now that was 25+ years ago. Don't know now.
Posted on 2/21/20 at 7:58 am to CAD703X
I’ve never had a trespasser problem, probably because I have a locked wooden privacy fence around the entire back property with the pool fence inside of that. I did have a raccoon visiting for a while who would wash crap in the water and once I woke up to a possum floating dead in the pool, but I’ve never had an issue with stray naked women or neighborhood kids. Even though the risk is very low, I still lock.
Posted on 2/21/20 at 10:08 am to BobABooey
quote:
the city where I lived required the fence gates to have auto-closers. The gates would swing shut and latch but there was no legal requirement to lock the gates.
Same for me.
The gates have to shut by themselves (accomplished with a simple spring).
And I also needed a latch above a certain determined height (??) in order to pass inspection. I installed these secondary latches in addition to normal gate latches I already had in order to meet code. Placed them on the inside near top of the fence that I just have to reach up or reach over and grab.
Nothing else was required.
Posted on 2/21/20 at 4:23 pm to Bow dude72
Bow dude72, get Umbrella coverage of at least $1 million. As long as your gates are locked, you are protecting your property.
This post was edited on 2/21/20 at 4:25 pm
Posted on 2/21/20 at 4:42 pm to CookieTiger
quote:
As long as your gates are locked, you are protecting your property.
They don't have to be locked. They need to be self-closing with a maglatch at the top. That's the typical install of a cast aluminum pool fence. That is considered secure.
ETA: You can get them keyed but it is not a requirement.
This post was edited on 2/21/20 at 4:44 pm
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