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re: Is modern golf too enamored with length off the tee?
Posted on 6/21/21 at 11:47 am to SuperFanDan
Posted on 6/21/21 at 11:47 am to SuperFanDan
quote:
Much like Michael Jordan's teams would kill modern teams
I always think this is a weird take. Not because NBA players are better today (even though they are), but due to the fact that Michael Jordan’s teams also killed teams that played in his era.
So you’re taking a team that completely dominated the game in their era and saying they would win in this era, I’m not sure what that proves? How about the worst team from that era, how would they do against the worst team from this era?
0
Posted on 6/21/21 at 11:50 am to Johnnie10lb
quote:
If anyone watched the US Open and paid attention they have to say it always come down to putting. It's an old saying but still holds true today. Drive for show, putt for dough.
The saying is wrong in today’s game. The top twelve in putting on the PGA
1 Louis Oosthuizen
2 Patrick Reed
3 Jason Kokrak
4 Brendon Todd
5 Brian Harman
6 Chesson Hadley
7 Patton Kizzire
8 Xander Schauffele
9 Zach Johnson
10 Justin Rose
11 Ian Poulter
12 Andrew Putnam
Money Leaderboard
1 Jon Rahm
2 Bryson DeChambeau
3 Justin Thomas
4 Patrick Cantlay
5 Jordan Spieth
6 Louis Oosthuizen
7 Xander Schauffele
8 Collin Morikawa
9 Viktor Hovland
10 Jason Kokrak
11 Brooks Koepka
12 Cameron Smith
This post was edited on 6/21/21 at 12:35 pm
Posted on 6/21/21 at 12:06 pm to go ta hell ole miss
Now pull up the putting statistics for each tournament this season, then look where the winner ranks. I would guess that more times than not the winner is going to at least be in the top 10 for that tournament.
Posted on 6/21/21 at 12:13 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Now pull up the putting statistics for each tournament this season, then look where the winner ranks. I would guess that more times than not the winner is going to at least be in the top 10 for that tournament.
It's the best putter of the best ballstrikers. The leading putter will never win if he's losing strokes t2g.
2020 Travelers first guy to lose strokes tee to green finished t41, first guy to lose strokes putting finished t11
This post was edited on 6/21/21 at 12:16 pm
Posted on 6/21/21 at 1:32 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Now pull up the putting statistics for each tournament this season, then look where the winner ranks. I would guess that more times than not the winner is going to at least be in the top 10 for that tournament.
5 of the top 13 players that finished in the top 10 of this US open had negative strokes gained putting.
Negative.
Posted on 6/21/21 at 2:27 pm to Toula
quote:
5 of the top 13 players that finished in the top 10 of this US open had negative strokes gained putting.
Negative.
Poking around on these US Open stats, looks like the biggest indicator for a good finish this weekend was accuracy off the tee, so maybe my assumption is off.
US Open player stats
Posted on 6/21/21 at 2:31 pm to SuperFanDan
quote:
What good does it do you to carry it 325 yds into deep rough vs a guy who carries it 280 and rolls it out to 300 in the fairway?
Not all rough is the same. You're acting like its all US Open and the rough will just eat it up. 90% of other courses the rough isn't that bad and if you get the ball to 335 and you're 100 out instead of 140, it's a HUGE difference. Regardless of your lie.
The way those guys can control their wedges is unfair. If they can hit a 50 degree instead of a PW or 9-iron, they'll take that every time
Posted on 6/21/21 at 2:33 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Poking around on these US Open stats, looks like the biggest indicator for a good finish this weekend was accuracy off the tee, so maybe my assumption is off.
7 of the top 11 in fairways hit were t40 or worse. What are you talking about?
Posted on 6/21/21 at 2:48 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
7 of the top 11 in fairways hit were t40 or worse. What are you talking about?
I was looking at the strokes gained tab. Even still I cited the wrong stat. I meant to say approach shots.
Posted on 6/21/21 at 3:18 pm to Spelt it rong
They are playing a game that I can’t.
For me to perform from the proper set of tees (between 6000 and 6500 yards), I need to hit it between the tree lines and have an unimpeded swing.
I also need to chip,pitch, and putt very well to break 80.
It looks like on tour you need to bomb it as far as you can because often the rough is the same at 260 as it is at 340.
My idea is graduated rough starting at 290 where the rough gets deeper the further you are from the tee. Now it gets deeper the further you are from the middle.
In my scenario if you hit a 280 shot 25 yards offline, you might be in 3/4 inch “rough. If you hit it 340, but 10 yards offline, make it knee deep. Risk/reward.
For me to perform from the proper set of tees (between 6000 and 6500 yards), I need to hit it between the tree lines and have an unimpeded swing.
I also need to chip,pitch, and putt very well to break 80.
It looks like on tour you need to bomb it as far as you can because often the rough is the same at 260 as it is at 340.
My idea is graduated rough starting at 290 where the rough gets deeper the further you are from the tee. Now it gets deeper the further you are from the middle.
In my scenario if you hit a 280 shot 25 yards offline, you might be in 3/4 inch “rough. If you hit it 340, but 10 yards offline, make it knee deep. Risk/reward.
Posted on 6/21/21 at 3:48 pm to makersmark1
quote:
My idea is graduated rough starting at 290 where the rough gets deeper the further you are from the tee. Now it gets deeper the further you are from the middle.
In my scenario if you hit a 280 shot 25 yards offline, you might be in 3/4 inch “rough. If you hit it 340, but 10 yards offline, make it knee deep. Risk/reward.
The counter to this is that it unfairly punishes the player who is more naturally gifted and/or worked harder to gain distance. I can see both sides of the argument though. I'd like to see this actually put into play for a tournament to see the results.
Posted on 6/21/21 at 4:04 pm to SuperFanDan
No because hitting bombs off the tee 100% makes golf easier.
Posted on 6/21/21 at 4:05 pm to medtiger
quote:
The counter to this is that it unfairly punishes the player who is more naturally gifted and/or worked harder to gain distance.
Golf should test multiple areas of ability and decision making.
The bombers are making it harder to provide a test that really provides opportunity for players like Hubert Green or Larry Nelson to win while at the same time a Jack Nicklaus can win several.
Jack was longer than the guys of his day. Golf will figure out how to provide the test.
I think lengthening courses reduces the number of guys in the field who can stick a tee in the ground and win that week. A Kisner should be tested as well as Bryson.
Length will always provide some advantage, but Courses need a variety of holes like a par 3 that is less than 150, a par 4 less than 300, a par 5 less than 550.
Watching guys play a bunch of 500 yard par 4s is not my idea of fun.
Posted on 6/21/21 at 4:08 pm to makersmark1
You just made all the arguments the pro-bifurcation crowd is making.
There's only a handful of courses in the country that offer a natural defense against the distance gains.
Kiawah and Concession from this year are really good examples.
There's only a handful of courses in the country that offer a natural defense against the distance gains.
Kiawah and Concession from this year are really good examples.
Posted on 6/21/21 at 4:20 pm to Toula
quote:
You just made all the arguments the pro-bifurcation crowd is making.
Make the ball curve again, and all of this conversation is moot.
So simple, yet with everything in golf, we have to make it as difficult as possible
Posted on 6/21/21 at 4:27 pm to Toula
I’m way past bifurcation.
Me shooting hoops in the backyard is not NBA basketball, and me playing a 6100 yard course with my friends is not major championship golf.
The powers that be should develop a set of “recreational” golf rules.
1. If you hit the fairway and are in a divot, bump it out.
2. No hitting off rocks.
3. No hitting off roots.
4. Match play or skins formats encouraged on weekend. Pick up when you are out of the hole.
5. Double bogey limit. Helps pace of play.
6. Play forward until you break 90. Move back when you break 80, 5 of 10 rounds.
7. All boundaries and hazards played as red stakes or define drop zone for yellow.
8. Drop out of bunker is 1 stroke, just like dropping behind a creek or pond.
Me shooting hoops in the backyard is not NBA basketball, and me playing a 6100 yard course with my friends is not major championship golf.
The powers that be should develop a set of “recreational” golf rules.
1. If you hit the fairway and are in a divot, bump it out.
2. No hitting off rocks.
3. No hitting off roots.
4. Match play or skins formats encouraged on weekend. Pick up when you are out of the hole.
5. Double bogey limit. Helps pace of play.
6. Play forward until you break 90. Move back when you break 80, 5 of 10 rounds.
7. All boundaries and hazards played as red stakes or define drop zone for yellow.
8. Drop out of bunker is 1 stroke, just like dropping behind a creek or pond.
Posted on 6/21/21 at 4:44 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
quote:
You just made all the arguments the pro-bifurcation crowd is making.
Make the ball curve again, and all of this conversation is moot.
So simple, yet with everything in golf, we have to make it as difficult as possible
There's no question that's the simplest and most effective way to do this if the ruling bodies want to go that route. Rolling it back for distance's sake is fricking stupid.
One thing most of these fans on both sides of that debate don't realize is that it really isn't going to make much of a difference in who's at the top of the sport, though. You might see some movement at the margins (I don't think Bryon's week-to-week floor on many courses would be quite so high as it is now, whereas someone like Thomas or Morikawa who can really shape the ball is going to get a bit of a leg up), but the best players in the world will by-and-large be the exact same group of guys.
Posted on 6/21/21 at 4:51 pm to AbuTheMonkey
Why are we fighting this so much and acting like distance isn't a skill you can work at and effectively make progress? Everyone is enamored with bashing distance - embrace it...we sure as hell did when Tiger was blowing it past the field.
Posted on 6/21/21 at 4:56 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
One thing most of these fans on both sides of that debate don't realize is that it really isn't going to make much of a difference in who's at the top of the sport, though. You might see some movement at the margins (I don't think Bryon's week-to-week floor on many courses would be quite so high as it is now, whereas someone like Thomas or Morikawa who can really shape the ball is going to get a bit of a leg up), but the best players in the world will by-and-large be the exact same group of guys.
You're right, but I don't think Bryson swings literally as hard as he can off every tee if there's a chance he misses it off the planet.
That's the issue. You can barely hit the face and the ball only goes 20 yards offline. MOI has been maxed out for like 15 years, it's not center strikes that have changed the distance game, it's the forgiveness of modern clubs.
This post was edited on 6/21/21 at 4:57 pm
Posted on 6/21/21 at 5:33 pm to makersmark1
I was under the impression most recreational players already followed most of those rules, especially on the weekends. I know we do. I really don’t give a shite if someone I’m playing with improves their lie. We’re there tk have fun, and sometimes gamble.
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