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Started By
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re: What is the PGA's beef with these Saudi events?
Posted on 6/1/22 at 5:35 pm to BMoney
Posted on 6/1/22 at 5:35 pm to BMoney
quote:
Fewer events with smaller fields, so that the best players in the world compete against each other more regularly.
What’s the problem with the field size? I like the idea that some lower ranked guy like Mito Pereira could make a run. You gonna eliminate him and others like him in favor of the same 25 or whatever every week? To each his own, but I like watching golf Thursday- Sunday with a large field and seeing who makes a run.
It’s the same guys anyway. That’s why they’re the “top”. The LIV isn’t doing anything new with the field.
T
quote:
his notion that there has to be 50 events in a calendar year is absurd.
Why? If you don’t enjoy it, don’t watch. Why in the world does the # of events bother you? Baseball plays what, 150 games? No one forces you to watch. Why do you care if the PGA has 50 events? Thank God they do. It fills the TV void that develops with the conclusion of the NCAA FB NC and Super Bowl.
Seems like the complaints are more about the programming than actual golf tourneys. And I think that’s more of a broadcaster- CBS, Fox, NBC- issue than a PGA issue. I’d
Love to see more golf and less puff pieces by Amanda or Jim or whoever. But that’s not a PGA issue. That’s the woke dicks at the networks. And if you’re gonna limit the even to the same 25-50 guys, how do you ever get younger, talented players to beat the top players ?
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Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:49 pm to Wildcat1996
This thread took some unexpected twists and turns. And LOL at 9 downvotes for what is nothing more than a reasonable question.
I can appreciate that the PGA doesn't want to lose its marquee players to a rival tour. But banning them instead of paying a competitive wage seems like a strong-arm, gangster-assed move.
I mean, if you have cattle to sell and they are paying more at another auction house, they don't kick you out of the old one for selling elsewhere.
If I'm growing roses and a rival florist is willing to pay more, it's a beech-arse move for the prior buyer to issue a ban on my flowers. Sure they can, but its a beech-arse move.
Why does the PGA view itself as free from market forces?
I have no love for the Saudis and their money. The harsh reality is that while petrodollars have made the country rich, the bulk of the country lives in poverty. And then there is the whole "women can't drive" silliness.
That said, I'm not buying any sanctimony from the PGA Tour on not letting their player do these events because of human rights issues. Players have played in events there for years. South Africans were on tour at the height of Apartheid. The leftists bellyache about Augusta National every year and its a Major. So they can take that woke shite elsewhere...if that what they are really trying to sell.
As I said in the OP, I haven't followed this closely. But I'm failing to see why banning players who participate in this tour is a good look for the Tour.
I can appreciate that the PGA doesn't want to lose its marquee players to a rival tour. But banning them instead of paying a competitive wage seems like a strong-arm, gangster-assed move.
I mean, if you have cattle to sell and they are paying more at another auction house, they don't kick you out of the old one for selling elsewhere.
If I'm growing roses and a rival florist is willing to pay more, it's a beech-arse move for the prior buyer to issue a ban on my flowers. Sure they can, but its a beech-arse move.
Why does the PGA view itself as free from market forces?
I have no love for the Saudis and their money. The harsh reality is that while petrodollars have made the country rich, the bulk of the country lives in poverty. And then there is the whole "women can't drive" silliness.
That said, I'm not buying any sanctimony from the PGA Tour on not letting their player do these events because of human rights issues. Players have played in events there for years. South Africans were on tour at the height of Apartheid. The leftists bellyache about Augusta National every year and its a Major. So they can take that woke shite elsewhere...if that what they are really trying to sell.
As I said in the OP, I haven't followed this closely. But I'm failing to see why banning players who participate in this tour is a good look for the Tour.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 10:37 pm to Wildcat1996
Would you let your employee go work for your main competitor part time? And if your employee told you he was going to work for your
Main competitor (who has vowed to put you out of business) would you tell him he was welcome to come Back and work at both places, or would you tell him that if he leaves you’ll have to let him go? If you say you’d let them work at both places with absolute magnanimity, you are a bald faced
liar.
There’s nothing “bitch arse” about the PGAs stance. And your horse shite about a competitive wage is just that. Horse shite. Players are free to participate in any league they choose. They simply can’t play anywhere they choose and expect to be welcomed by the PGA. That’s business. That’s life.
Main competitor (who has vowed to put you out of business) would you tell him he was welcome to come Back and work at both places, or would you tell him that if he leaves you’ll have to let him go? If you say you’d let them work at both places with absolute magnanimity, you are a bald faced
liar.
There’s nothing “bitch arse” about the PGAs stance. And your horse shite about a competitive wage is just that. Horse shite. Players are free to participate in any league they choose. They simply can’t play anywhere they choose and expect to be welcomed by the PGA. That’s business. That’s life.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 4:45 am to DestrehanTiger
quote:
don't really understand people being upset with the PGA. .... The steps they are taking now are just the most cost efficient options.
When have sports fans ever been happy with ownership taking the most cost efficient options?
Posted on 6/2/22 at 6:20 am to tigerinthebueche
They aren’t employees though they are independent contractors so slightly different distinction in my mind. A contractor is way more of a hired gun. An employee probably takes less money but has the safety blanket that they always get a check.
I understand why the PGA is pissed another tour is coming on and giving players options and also because it’s the Saudi’s and they have endless money thanks to the US they can change the rules with pay.
I’m guessing the majors will want the top players regardless of tour and they are above pga influences, so that hurts the pga tour in the long run as a player can still win all majors. Let’s say DJ wins the us open or the masters again and now the LIV tour can brag they have a major champion and the pga has banned him. That is going to be a bad look on the pga.
It’s a difficult position for the pga. I think the ban worked as long as it was no names but now DJ broke the system.
I understand why the PGA is pissed another tour is coming on and giving players options and also because it’s the Saudi’s and they have endless money thanks to the US they can change the rules with pay.
I’m guessing the majors will want the top players regardless of tour and they are above pga influences, so that hurts the pga tour in the long run as a player can still win all majors. Let’s say DJ wins the us open or the masters again and now the LIV tour can brag they have a major champion and the pga has banned him. That is going to be a bad look on the pga.
It’s a difficult position for the pga. I think the ban worked as long as it was no names but now DJ broke the system.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 6:31 am to tigerinthebueche
quote:
Players are free to participate in any league they choose. They simply can’t play anywhere they choose and expect to be welcomed by the PGA. That’s business. That’s life.
This is like saying you can shop anywhere, but if you are a Sam's Club Member you just can't shop at COSTCO....and that's business; that's life. Sure, the players aren't customers, but as has already been noted, they aren't employees either.
Everyone that has a monopoly wants to maintain it. No one welcomes another competitor to the marketplace...especially one with deeper pockets.
So it's understandable that the PGA is upset, but banning players is indeed a beach-assed move.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 6:37 am to Wildcat1996
Yep they are contractors. I could get mad if my contractors chose to do jobs for rival companies and refuse to hire them for jobs again but then I have to find new contractors.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 6:45 am to Big4SALTbro
…..and the tour will have to replace a bunch of has beens. The tour is super deep and replacement will not be an issue.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 7:02 am to TDTOM
quote:
and the tour will have to replace a bunch of has beens. The tour is super deep and replacement will not be an issue.
If that's true, why is the Tour upset? Let them go and make their money. If they are has beens, they won't be making cuts and maintaining the credentials to play in PGA Tour events for much longer anyway.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 7:08 am to Wildcat1996
The tour is not upset and is not stopping them, they can’t. However, what they can do is abide by there bylaws decide who gets to be a member of the PGA tour.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 7:58 am to TDTOM
quote:
The tour is super deep and replacement will not be an issue.
This is a bright spot IMO. There are a lot of good players to replace the ones who leave.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 9:24 am to tigerinthebueche
quote:Terrible analogy. I'll say it again. The PGA Tour is the place, and there's just one really, where the best golfer compete. This cannot be compared to a business. It cannot be compared to what we all think of as an independent contractor relationship. The players are not doing a job for anyone but themselves and their caddy, and to a certain extent, their sponsors. Stop with these terrible comps.
Would you let your employee go work for your main competitor part time? And if your employee told you he was going to work for your
Main competitor (who has vowed to put you out of business) would you tell him he was welcome to come Back and work at both places, or would you tell him that if he leaves you’ll have to let him go? If you say you’d let them work at both places with absolute magnanimity, you are a bald faced
liar.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 9:28 am to AlxTgr
quote:
Stop with these terrible comps.
Good luck. It's idiotic, but that's not going to stop them
Posted on 6/2/22 at 9:32 am to Mingo Was His NameO
I don’t compare the PGA to an employer besides when trying to highlight “why they would be upset”. I compare it to an organization that has bylaws for its members. Break those bylaws, and it seems fair to me you face punishment
Ultimately, it will go to court.
Ultimately, it will go to court.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:15 am to AlxTgr
quote:
Stop with these terrible comps.
Im simply comparing the two sentiments or rationales behind the actions of the entities.
I think one of the questions that needs to be ( and will be) addressed is what exactly the PGA is and what it’s members are- employees, contractors, members only, etc.
How’s this comparison: your girlfriend wants to go spend weekends with a rich Arab guy in Saudi Arabia. And if shE likes it she’ll stay. But she’ll still hang out with you when she comes back home. You gonna take her back when she’s done?
This post was edited on 6/2/22 at 10:21 am
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:17 am to tigerinthebueche
quote:
Im simply comparing the two sentiments or rationales behind the actions of the entities
But the comparison is stupid, doe
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:45 am to tigerinthebueche
quote:Pretty bad
How’s this comparison: your girlfriend wants to go spend weekends with a rich Arab guy in Saudi Arabia. And if shE likes it she’ll stay. But she’ll still hang out with you when she comes back home. You gonna take her back when she’s done?
All of these assume the PGA Tour is a thing that it's not. It's fairly unique. It's not even like other spots. Tennis would be the closest I guess. To the extent that is is a business, it's a monopoly. I would not want their case. Posted on 6/2/22 at 11:54 am to tigerinthebueche
I laughed...cause it's even more terrible of a comparison.
But thanks for that.
But thanks for that.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 12:46 pm to Wildcat1996
quote:
This is like saying you can shop anywhere, but if you are a Sam's Club Member you just can't shop at COSTCO....and that's business; that's life. Sure, the players aren't customers, but as has already been noted, they aren't employees either.
No, this is like a business owner having an exclusive deal only to sell Nike shoes in his store and then putting Adidas on the shelf when offered money and then wondering why that should sour his deal and relationship with Nike.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 1:22 pm to lsufball19
quote:Nope
No, this is like a business owner having an exclusive deal only to sell Nike shoes in his store and then putting Adidas on the shelf when offered money and then wondering why that should sour his deal and relationship with Nike.
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