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Message
14 yo son…. Creatine?
Posted on 8/25/24 at 10:01 pm
Posted on 8/25/24 at 10:01 pm
My soon to be 14 yo is getting into weights, as he plays all 3 major sports.
Won’t shut up about creatine? I remember using the stuff 25 years ago… what’s the boards opinion?
5’7” 120 lbs, 8th grade
Won’t shut up about creatine? I remember using the stuff 25 years ago… what’s the boards opinion?
5’7” 120 lbs, 8th grade
7
Posted on 8/25/24 at 10:59 pm to xBirdx
Diet, sleep, and consistent training are more important.
Creatine won’t hurt. But, it’s not going to transform your kid. It’s an extra 5-10% of benefit.
Creatine won’t hurt. But, it’s not going to transform your kid. It’s an extra 5-10% of benefit.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 12:53 am to xBirdx
Everything SaintTiger said is accurate, but I say....a person is only 13-25 years old once in their life, strike while the iron is hot.
If he's going to eat right(or at least try), sleep right (or at least try), and commit to real resistance training consistently (he has to know HOW to do it correctly) then creatine is essential to getting the best results out of all of that.
I'm not going to say "Do what I did", but my results from creatine usage were amazing, and I didn't even try to do the "Eat right, sleep right, train right" and I didn't take creatine until I was 19. The only reason I mention that is because I was not unique, I played college football with lots of guys who were just like me. Binge drinking, chasing tail, bad sleep, shite food, but we hit the weights consistently (maybe with less than intelligent methods, but we had the consistency down pat), and we took creatine...and we got real big and strong. (No doubt being young healthy athletic men caused most of this, but the creatine didn't hurt is all I'm saying)
That said, try the best you can to reinforce the fundamentals with nutrition/sleep/training, but creatine is cheap and easy to obtain, and he may respond quite well to it. 5 grams a day. I'm glad you reminded me, I need to take mine.
If he's going to eat right(or at least try), sleep right (or at least try), and commit to real resistance training consistently (he has to know HOW to do it correctly) then creatine is essential to getting the best results out of all of that.
I'm not going to say "Do what I did", but my results from creatine usage were amazing, and I didn't even try to do the "Eat right, sleep right, train right" and I didn't take creatine until I was 19. The only reason I mention that is because I was not unique, I played college football with lots of guys who were just like me. Binge drinking, chasing tail, bad sleep, shite food, but we hit the weights consistently (maybe with less than intelligent methods, but we had the consistency down pat), and we took creatine...and we got real big and strong. (No doubt being young healthy athletic men caused most of this, but the creatine didn't hurt is all I'm saying)
That said, try the best you can to reinforce the fundamentals with nutrition/sleep/training, but creatine is cheap and easy to obtain, and he may respond quite well to it. 5 grams a day. I'm glad you reminded me, I need to take mine.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 4:31 am to DrDenim
quote:
5 grams a day.
No real need for a "loading" phase. At 5 grams a day, his muscles will be saturated within 3 weeks.
Creatine also has daily benefits even for people not working out.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 7:28 am to xBirdx
every human on earth should be taking creatine.
it will help in brain development and is the best benefit of the supplement
it will help some in strength and weight but food is his biggest thing that will help him. consistently getting 1000 calories in before 9 am and getting 4 meals with 40g protein in everyday before 4 is going to be the biggest things.
so year 5g of creatine everyday is something he should be taking. i will say though, be careful with it being so hot if he is playing sports right now. need to drink extra water.
is he actually following a good plan on lifting?
it will help in brain development and is the best benefit of the supplement
it will help some in strength and weight but food is his biggest thing that will help him. consistently getting 1000 calories in before 9 am and getting 4 meals with 40g protein in everyday before 4 is going to be the biggest things.
so year 5g of creatine everyday is something he should be taking. i will say though, be careful with it being so hot if he is playing sports right now. need to drink extra water.
is he actually following a good plan on lifting?
Posted on 8/26/24 at 9:19 am to DrDenim
Thats cool. Did you play at a small school or division 1?
Posted on 8/26/24 at 9:54 am to lsu777
Just getting started really. He’s on middle of football, then into basketball, so going to get serious probably around the new year. Wanted to get my ducks in a row
Posted on 8/26/24 at 10:42 am to xBirdx
have him run an LP or run grasshopper from ppsa. if you choose grasshopper, start with just bar for first 4 weeks. then repeat the first four weeks of the program 3 more times. then do the same for the last 4 weeks of the program until he heads off to high school lifting program. Will give him a great base
also before each session, have him throw med balls as hard as possible. pick 2 variations for each day. 5 reps on each
then have him do 10 yard dash. get a stop watch and time him. I just made two marks in the driveway and do it like that. have him run 5 each session trying to improve PR over time. if you wanted you could add flying 10 to that too and rotate.
then move to dumbbell jumps. abotu 10% of squat max in each hand and wave them.
so lets say he squats 100 lbs. day 1 use 10's in each hand, 7.5 the next, then 12.5. repeat. about 5-8 jumps each time trying to get as high as possible.
also before each session, have him throw med balls as hard as possible. pick 2 variations for each day. 5 reps on each
then have him do 10 yard dash. get a stop watch and time him. I just made two marks in the driveway and do it like that. have him run 5 each session trying to improve PR over time. if you wanted you could add flying 10 to that too and rotate.
then move to dumbbell jumps. abotu 10% of squat max in each hand and wave them.
so lets say he squats 100 lbs. day 1 use 10's in each hand, 7.5 the next, then 12.5. repeat. about 5-8 jumps each time trying to get as high as possible.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 12:23 pm to lsu777
quote:
it will help in brain development and is the best benefit of the supplement
This is the only thing my 14 year isn't doing. I'm just so hesitant to give someone so young any kind of supplement. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just hesitant.
Also, the 1000 cals before 9 is the best advice the OP should take. Especially during school. My son had 3 eggs, steak, baked potato with butter, and milk all before he left for school. I let him eat whatever during school, and then a similar meal to breakfast for supper. Yogurt with PB powder before bed. 3000-3500 cal target, 190 g protein. He's averaging 2lbs a month during football. I probably need to up that some since he's growing as well.
I think he had more results from GZCL's VDIP program than anything else. I let him use the liftosaur app to track his own progress. They work out at school but he basically fills in the blanks with VDIP (they don't push them enough)
Posted on 8/26/24 at 1:27 pm to xBirdx
Creatine is very safe and very beneficial to most people in many ways. i dont see any harm to someone that young starting it. Just like anything though, do your research on how to use and and what dosages to use. its got a pretty wide margin of safety.
if you want to go the extra step you could get some blood tests/urine tests done to check kidney function, as that's probably the most taxing this supplement will be to his body. there is some arguments about that on both sides but just to err on the side of caution, assume you should have good kidneys to use it, which im sure he does being a healthy young kid.
my next statement isn't directed to the OP or meant to be rude, but this seems to get asked (specifically, my young son wants to take creatine........) ALL the time. Is this worth a sticky type topic?
if you want to go the extra step you could get some blood tests/urine tests done to check kidney function, as that's probably the most taxing this supplement will be to his body. there is some arguments about that on both sides but just to err on the side of caution, assume you should have good kidneys to use it, which im sure he does being a healthy young kid.
my next statement isn't directed to the OP or meant to be rude, but this seems to get asked (specifically, my young son wants to take creatine........) ALL the time. Is this worth a sticky type topic?
Posted on 8/26/24 at 3:14 pm to bamaguy17
quote:
This is the only thing my 14 year isn't doing. I'm just so hesitant to give someone so young any kind of supplement. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just hesitant.
i understand but may i ask why? you let him eat steak and its naturally occuring in red meat, its just it takes ~4lbs of red meat to get 5g creatine.
creatine is the most researched supplement on the planet
now i will say this...if you are not interested in the benefits on the brain than a 14-15 year old doesnt need creatine. Wait until they are stalling in strength and you have tried a lot of other things first. then you can use it to overcome the plateau. teens benefit much more from structure and overall good habits
examine.com pretty much has everything you could think of in terms of studies on creatine
as far as a diet plan...look at eating thick, lifting heavy from PPSA. I have used it as the base for most plans i give to the teen athletes I advise. most gain 15-20 lbs in a year just with it and rarely do they gain much fat if at all using it.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 4:21 pm to lsu777
quote:
i understand but may i ask why?
I don’t have a good reason. Maybe just the stigma of kids taking any supplement being bad. I’m mid 40s and they use to always tell you that too much protein would wreck your kidneys
I could wait til a stall, but like you said he could use it just for the brain benefit. As for lifting, he’s doing great. Way ahead of the other kids.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 5:51 pm to bamaguy17
I’m about to be 42 and started taking creatine at 14
But your comment about protein and it since being proven 10000% false should tell you everything you need to know
And yea I’m of the opinion that every human on earth should take it if they are healthy. My kids have been taking it since they were 10.
But your comment about protein and it since being proven 10000% false should tell you everything you need to know
And yea I’m of the opinion that every human on earth should take it if they are healthy. My kids have been taking it since they were 10.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 7:02 pm to xBirdx
Nothing wrong with creatine. If hes working hard it will give a little boost. No harm at all
Posted on 8/27/24 at 12:14 am to bamaguy17
Creatine as a supplement vs. the shite they drink at Starbucks on the way home from school? Creatine is the least of their problems.
Look at the volume of stuff he's eating on a daily basis. He's probably on the See-food diet, which is normal. But that also means there are hot cheetos in there you don't see, etc.
He absolutely needs to drink more water than he is, and some more on creatine. But, if the side effect of a supplement is to drink more water, is it really that bad? Compare that to 13 year old girls getting the pill "for acne." There are multitudes of difference. Drink water, make sure urine is clear, and full speed ahead.
Certain people are more susceptible to things like albumin markers being elevated, but that technically doesn't have much of anything due to creatine. As an adult, I don't know I could possibly eat 140g of protein every day (equal to LBM) without throwing some of it up. Grant a teenager 100% bonus, even without working out, they're on permanent eating duty. Would you rather he eat pop tarts and pizza rolls, or meat?
Look at the volume of stuff he's eating on a daily basis. He's probably on the See-food diet, which is normal. But that also means there are hot cheetos in there you don't see, etc.
He absolutely needs to drink more water than he is, and some more on creatine. But, if the side effect of a supplement is to drink more water, is it really that bad? Compare that to 13 year old girls getting the pill "for acne." There are multitudes of difference. Drink water, make sure urine is clear, and full speed ahead.
Certain people are more susceptible to things like albumin markers being elevated, but that technically doesn't have much of anything due to creatine. As an adult, I don't know I could possibly eat 140g of protein every day (equal to LBM) without throwing some of it up. Grant a teenager 100% bonus, even without working out, they're on permanent eating duty. Would you rather he eat pop tarts and pizza rolls, or meat?
Posted on 8/27/24 at 12:52 pm to xBirdx
Posted on 8/28/24 at 8:17 am to lsu777
quote:what's the science behind the timing of before 9am and before 4pm here?
consistently getting 1000 calories in before 9 am and getting 4 meals with 40g protein in everyday before 4 is going to be the biggest things
This post was edited on 8/28/24 at 8:24 am
Posted on 8/28/24 at 8:33 am to hashtag
quote:
what's the science behind the timing of before 9am and before 4pm here?
nothing, there is no real science on meal timing, there is a some small advantages on maximizing muscle protein synthesis every 3-4 hours but overall if you get total calories and protein marks you will be about 90%+ as effective
if you ever worked with kids, what happens is they say they are eating a ton and not gaining weight....well in 90% + of the cases I see, its because they eat a pop tart for breakfast, a bag of chips for lunch and eat a huge meal at night.
that huge meal is big but it's not enough calories and protein to make up for the lack of nutrition earlier in the day. most teen athletes inadvertently practice intermittent fasting or eat like I described where they snack throughout the day and then a big meal at night
a 1000 calories before 9 am sets them up for success. it makes sure it gets them the calories and protein they need so that they can hit the overall marks to put on muscle. it ensures they eat a proper breakfast
for the 4 meals by 4.....what happens is most kids have a loss of appetite for a couple of hours after practice due to the heat. practice usually starts at 3. If they get the 4 meals in before practice it makes sure they are probably 80% to the calorie and protein marks. maybe only 60% but the overall calorie/macro goals are well within reach.
most parents talking about teens eating them out of a house and home have no clue wtf they are talking about. They assume bags of chips and cookies and other dog shite empty calorie BS is "eating a ton" when its not
TLDR: no science behind it, just ensures teenagers don't eat like teenagers do.
Posted on 8/28/24 at 8:58 am to xBirdx
Every human on the planet should be taking a daily creatine supplement. It does so much more than aid in muscle building. Yes he should take it, but more so for all the benefits that come with it, not just the weight benefit.
Posted on 8/28/24 at 9:10 am to lsu777
here is an example of what my 13-year-old eats right now. It's in-season but still trying to add strength and size
for breakfast- ~775k cals- 65/48/33 p/c/f
-4 pieces center-cut bacon
-2 eggs + 1/4 cup nonfat cottage cheese blended & scrambled
-1/4 cup shredded cheese
- large flour tortilla burrito
put everything in and make a breakfast burrito. could easily add mayo, make the cottage cheese full fat, or add another egg. he drinks 10oz Fairlife Fat-free milk with this. could easily change to whole or skim or choc Fairlife to bring calories up
sometimes, we do hash browns, more eggs + more cottage cheese + deer sausage, and make a breakfast bowl or do diced potatoes. the goal for him is over 50g protein, 40g carbs, and more than 700 calories at this breakfast. As long as he achieves that, I do care what he eats but we try and keep it mainly to non-processed foods other than the tortilla.
lunch-450 calories- 48/54/4 p/c/f
-1/2 bag uncle bens jasmine ready rice
-6oz chicken breast
-1/2 cup canned black beans
i just grill and slice a bunch of chicken breast and throw together lunches as needed. 60oz chicken = ~4.5oz cooked. sometimes he adds corn too. we season with Spanglish Asadero seasonings i get from sams to make essentially a burrito bowl. you can marinate the chicken in the chipotle sauce and make a chipotle bowl if you wanted. just type into social media and you will find the recipe easily.
- after school snack- 450 cals- 40/43/14 p/c/f
- 6oz 93% ground beef
-other half of the bag of ready rice
again variety of seasonings can be used. i cook up 2 lbs of ground beef with just seasonings like Cajun, garlic/onion powder, etc and then he can do things like add taco seasoning or any other he wants or even some sweet and spicy sauce to make like a korean beef bowl if he is wanting too. adds some calories not accounted for. sometimes too he will just take the premade hamburger patties we have frozen and make him a double cheeseburger instead here and not do the rice. or add a little sloppy joe sauce to the beef and do that instead.
dinner- try and keep it around 750 calories or so and 50g protein. its usually a meat and some kind of carb source. he is obsessed with steak so usually its that. last night we went to dinner after his football game and he had carne asada and rice/beans and 100% went over his calories. im ok if he goes up to around 1000 calories here
but monday it was 8oz of chuck eye steak and he wanted mac and cheese the microwave kind. he is 13 that is fine
he told me this morning he wanted skirt steak and potatoes of the choices i gave him. so he will have 8-10 oz skirt steak and ~300g baby red pototoes. I boil the potatoes with a little crab boil seasoning then throw them in air fryer and slice after, weigh and season them, roughly 200g cooked weight.
before bed he will drink a protein shake. usually its a core power 42g shake
so daily he gets roughly the following
~2500-2800 calories
~250g protein
~200g carbs
~80g fat
he is 5'8 170ish pounds right now. he is playing football with practice/games 3-4x per game and still lifting 2-3x per week.
so now yall have an idea on how a young teen should be eating.
outside of the ppsa lifting heavy eating thick plan, follow
Wendi A. Irlbeck on twitter. she is always posting ideas
jim wendlers boring but big meal plan is perfect for the older high school athlete around 16 or so- LINK
as is his meal plan for building the monolith LINK
here are some sample plans that are pretty similar to what i described. the lower calorie ones are more what my 11 year old eats
for breakfast- ~775k cals- 65/48/33 p/c/f
-4 pieces center-cut bacon
-2 eggs + 1/4 cup nonfat cottage cheese blended & scrambled
-1/4 cup shredded cheese
- large flour tortilla burrito
put everything in and make a breakfast burrito. could easily add mayo, make the cottage cheese full fat, or add another egg. he drinks 10oz Fairlife Fat-free milk with this. could easily change to whole or skim or choc Fairlife to bring calories up
sometimes, we do hash browns, more eggs + more cottage cheese + deer sausage, and make a breakfast bowl or do diced potatoes. the goal for him is over 50g protein, 40g carbs, and more than 700 calories at this breakfast. As long as he achieves that, I do care what he eats but we try and keep it mainly to non-processed foods other than the tortilla.
lunch-450 calories- 48/54/4 p/c/f
-1/2 bag uncle bens jasmine ready rice
-6oz chicken breast
-1/2 cup canned black beans
i just grill and slice a bunch of chicken breast and throw together lunches as needed. 60oz chicken = ~4.5oz cooked. sometimes he adds corn too. we season with Spanglish Asadero seasonings i get from sams to make essentially a burrito bowl. you can marinate the chicken in the chipotle sauce and make a chipotle bowl if you wanted. just type into social media and you will find the recipe easily.
- after school snack- 450 cals- 40/43/14 p/c/f
- 6oz 93% ground beef
-other half of the bag of ready rice
again variety of seasonings can be used. i cook up 2 lbs of ground beef with just seasonings like Cajun, garlic/onion powder, etc and then he can do things like add taco seasoning or any other he wants or even some sweet and spicy sauce to make like a korean beef bowl if he is wanting too. adds some calories not accounted for. sometimes too he will just take the premade hamburger patties we have frozen and make him a double cheeseburger instead here and not do the rice. or add a little sloppy joe sauce to the beef and do that instead.
dinner- try and keep it around 750 calories or so and 50g protein. its usually a meat and some kind of carb source. he is obsessed with steak so usually its that. last night we went to dinner after his football game and he had carne asada and rice/beans and 100% went over his calories. im ok if he goes up to around 1000 calories here
but monday it was 8oz of chuck eye steak and he wanted mac and cheese the microwave kind. he is 13 that is fine
he told me this morning he wanted skirt steak and potatoes of the choices i gave him. so he will have 8-10 oz skirt steak and ~300g baby red pototoes. I boil the potatoes with a little crab boil seasoning then throw them in air fryer and slice after, weigh and season them, roughly 200g cooked weight.
before bed he will drink a protein shake. usually its a core power 42g shake
so daily he gets roughly the following
~2500-2800 calories
~250g protein
~200g carbs
~80g fat
he is 5'8 170ish pounds right now. he is playing football with practice/games 3-4x per game and still lifting 2-3x per week.
so now yall have an idea on how a young teen should be eating.
outside of the ppsa lifting heavy eating thick plan, follow
Wendi A. Irlbeck on twitter. she is always posting ideas
jim wendlers boring but big meal plan is perfect for the older high school athlete around 16 or so- LINK
as is his meal plan for building the monolith LINK
here are some sample plans that are pretty similar to what i described. the lower calorie ones are more what my 11 year old eats
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