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Posted on 7/17/24 at 1:04 pm to BilbeauTBaggins
quote:
It's poor man's altitude training.
I wouldn't even call it "poor man's" altitude training, I think it's just as intense as altitude running, just in a totally different way. I am living in a hot area of the country and am from Louisiana, so it's not like I'm unfamiliar with running in heat at all.
But, visiting Louisiana recently, for the first week or so, I could only go between 50-75% of the distance I can go in the area I live in, which is just as hot, but not quite as humid. Even by the end of my stay, I still don't think I could go the same distance as I typically do nearly as comfortably as I do when I'm home.
I think it definitely can help you build up resistance for running in the most uncomfortable conditions. I remember during one my runs, it was hot, then it rained, and then it got hot and muggy again all in the duration of a four mile run (which is short for me).
Soaking wet from the rain, running in hot, humid conditions can take even the most experienced runner and nearly break him/her. I think a summer on the gulf coast could be just as beneficial as a summer in the mountains, cardio-wise.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 2:41 pm to pelicansfan123
quote:
I think a summer on the gulf coast could be just as beneficial as a summer in the mountains, cardio-wise.
I think there are merits to training in heat + humidity, but if benefits were actually the same we’d have world class runners living and training in the South…but we don’t. They’re all in Colorado or Arizona or Africa.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 2:58 pm to jordan21210
quote:
I think there are merits to training in heat + humidity, but if benefits were actually the same we’d have world class runners living and training in the South…but we don’t. They’re all in Colorado or Arizona or Africa.
flagstaff seems pretty cool so there is that
To say we don't have world-class runners in the South ignores the sizable portion of sprinters who live in South Florida and grew up in the south.
Outside of Oregon/, the NCAA outdoor track title stays in the south. There has to be more to that than black people are here.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 3:00 pm to LSUfan4444
you kind of just made up those numbers.
from one article you link "For example, if you normally run six miles (around 10K) at roughly 8:00 min/mile (approx. 5 min/km), but the temperature is 80 F (27 C), if you were to slow down by 0.15 per cent per degree over 60, you would slow down by roughly three per cent (80-60 = 20 degrees over 60F. 20 x 0.15% = 3.0%). Three per cent slower than 8:00 min/mile is 8:14/mile (about 5:08/km). On a particularly humid day, you may want to slow down by an additional 5-10 seconds."
from another article -
"60°F to 68°F WBGT 3.3 % ~ 10 seconds/mile
69°F to 77°F WBGT 4.5% ~ 13.5 seconds/mile"
maybe it maths out if you're running 10% grade...
from one article you link "For example, if you normally run six miles (around 10K) at roughly 8:00 min/mile (approx. 5 min/km), but the temperature is 80 F (27 C), if you were to slow down by 0.15 per cent per degree over 60, you would slow down by roughly three per cent (80-60 = 20 degrees over 60F. 20 x 0.15% = 3.0%). Three per cent slower than 8:00 min/mile is 8:14/mile (about 5:08/km). On a particularly humid day, you may want to slow down by an additional 5-10 seconds."
from another article -
"60°F to 68°F WBGT 3.3 % ~ 10 seconds/mile
69°F to 77°F WBGT 4.5% ~ 13.5 seconds/mile"
maybe it maths out if you're running 10% grade...
Posted on 7/17/24 at 3:42 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
To say we don't have world-class runners in the South ignores the sizable portion of sprinters who live in South Florida and grew up in the south
Should have specified I was talking about distance running.
Edit: distance running is where I always hear the “heat/humidity is a poor man’s altitude” line referenced.
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 7/17/24 at 4:13 pm to jordan21210
quote:
Edit: distance running is where I always hear the “heat/humidity is a poor man’s altitude” line referenced.
I've heard this as well.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 4:30 pm to ks_nola
quote:Sure...I made it up.
you kind of just made up those numbers.
There's no true formula because of other factors like I mentioned before. Running at 85 degrees in Hawaii is not the same as running at 85 degrees in Louisiana.
My numbers I gave are based more towards South Louisiana now, in July.
Using this calculator for example, over a 10k, without factoring altitude or humidity you're looking at about 4 seconds per mile from 60-80 degrees. As the temp gets higher and high the RPE increases dramatically so what may start at :10 the first mile only compounds later in the run as it gets hotter and hotter.
LINK
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 4:42 pm
Posted on 7/17/24 at 5:06 pm to LSUfan4444
Is there a supposed "ideal temp" for optimal 5-10k runs?
Posted on 7/17/24 at 5:33 pm to RandySavage
I think that's probably more of a personal preference but it ranges for most people from 45-60.
I've always heard and approached temps when running to dress like it's 20 degrees warmer than what it is. For me, ideally was something in the upper 40s.
I've always heard and approached temps when running to dress like it's 20 degrees warmer than what it is. For me, ideally was something in the upper 40s.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 5:47 pm to LSUfan4444
so i used your calculator. plugged in 10k distance at 8:00 pace. at 60 degrees, the temp adjusted pace was 8:01 and at 80 degrees the temp adjusted pace was 8:16. So 16 seconds/ mile slower. you original post said it was 10-30 seconds per mile every 5 degrees. at best that's 40 seconds per mile slower or worse cast 120 seconds slower. the article you linked mentioned adding 5-10 secs for humidity. lets compare averages 16 seconds + 7.5 sec for humidity factor makes 23.5 seconds using your calculator and a humidity factor vs 80 secs from the original numbers you posted. you only over estimated by 3.4x or included a south louisiana altitude factor i'm not aware of.
ideal race day temp in my opinion is probably 45 degrees.
ideal race day temp in my opinion is probably 45 degrees.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 6:16 pm to ks_nola
quote:
So 16 seconds/ mile slower. you original post said it was 10-30 seconds per mile every 5 degrees. at best that's 40 seconds per mile slower or worse cast 120 seconds slower.
I'm not sure why you're so hung up on this
16 seconds per mile for a 20 degree increase breaks down to about 4 seconds per mile (again, no humidity, elevation, RPE, etc). Now, add the 10 seconds for humidity and that's the 15 which I think is a good estimate.
If you want to factor in humidity in south Louisiana, you need to do so at the top of the scale, not middle.
Here's an article that claims 20-30 second per mile.
It's not an exact science and the effect is different on anyone. What time of the year is it. What's the mental affect does the run have taxing the body at a much slower effort. How much of the run is shaded. What surface is the run on. What kind of elevation gain is there. How acclimated are you to the heat / humidity, etc etc etc
Posted on 7/17/24 at 6:44 pm to LSUfan4444
quote:
There's no true formula because of other factors like I mentioned before. Running at 85 degrees in Hawaii is not the same as running at 85 degrees in Louisiana.
I’ll put it this way, my first half of my marathon in January (low 40s) was 15 minutes faster than the half I ran last October in the high 70s and 90% humidity
I trained the absolute bare minimum (for me) to finish a marathon f
Posted on 7/17/24 at 9:12 pm to LSUfan4444
agree the 16 sec/mile for 20 degree difference breaks down to 4 sec/mile per 5 degree. however the 10 secs/mile humidity factor from the article was for the overall 20 degree difference not for every 5 degree increment. With heat and humidity at 5 degree interval you would add 4 + 10/4 = 6.5 secs/mile. compared to the avg of the 10-30 secs/mile/5 degree you originally stated would be off by 3x.
As you stated this isn't scientific so we can just settle on the concept that as the heat and humidity increases you will probably run slower at the same level of effort.
good info in the latest article you linked. States best time to run is sunrise and also states you should drink 20oz of fluid a "few hours" before your run. Setting my alarm for 2:45am to get that water in some i'm ready to go at 5:45am
As you stated this isn't scientific so we can just settle on the concept that as the heat and humidity increases you will probably run slower at the same level of effort.
good info in the latest article you linked. States best time to run is sunrise and also states you should drink 20oz of fluid a "few hours" before your run. Setting my alarm for 2:45am to get that water in some i'm ready to go at 5:45am
Posted on 7/17/24 at 9:41 pm to RandySavage
Colder the better.
Posted on 7/18/24 at 8:19 am to pelicansfan123
quote:
I think it's just as intense as altitude running
After graduating HS I spent a few weeks in Quito where it's over 9000' elevation. I could not breathe after 5 minutes of normal jogging. There's a substantial difference between the weather being really hot and wet vs. there actually being a lack of oxygen. Essentially running inside of a sauna in the summer in South LA provides its own type of training that elevation cannot replicate, but by no means is it "as intense" as training at elevation, IMO.
Posted on 7/18/24 at 8:48 am to BilbeauTBaggins
quote:
running inside of a sauna in the summer in South LA provides its own type of training that elevation cannot replicate, but by no means is it "as intense" as training at elevation, IMO.
Depends on the temps at elevation IMO
9000' is extreme; as extreme as say 97 degrees at 96% humidity.
But I've raced in places like Boulder around 5500. Without question 5500 at 50 degrees is nowhere close to 5500 at 90 degrees
The effects on performance from training in the heat and humidity and racing places like Salt Lake City or Boulder is going to be much closer than say racing somewhere like Leadville.
Not speaking of course to nutrition, hydration, etc. which is a whole different animal but if you just compare the HR to pace relevancy to South La in July to say Boulder in October it's not that far off for most people IMO
Posted on 8/2/24 at 4:34 pm to LSUfan4444
results from runs the past two days.
yesterday 7am 55 degrees 6.5 miles avg pace 8:03, elevation gain 184 ft AVG HR 150
today 11:30am 80 degrees 9.0 miles avg pace 7:52, elevation gain 243 ft AVG HR 155
small sample size but does any of your articles or calculators explain the negligible HR difference with 25 degree temp change, increased overall pace and distance?
yesterday 7am 55 degrees 6.5 miles avg pace 8:03, elevation gain 184 ft AVG HR 150
today 11:30am 80 degrees 9.0 miles avg pace 7:52, elevation gain 243 ft AVG HR 155
small sample size but does any of your articles or calculators explain the negligible HR difference with 25 degree temp change, increased overall pace and distance?
Posted on 8/3/24 at 12:49 am to RandySavage
Speed work is the only thing that will get you faster. But 5 weeks isn't much time to see results. I would do 5 x 800 repeats at 3 minute each with 2 minutes rest. Do that twice a week and after 4 weeks cut down to 3 repeats at 2:50. It's not ideal but if you can do that them running sub 21 should be easy.
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