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re: Question for the offensive minded posters?
Posted on 11/20/24 at 11:15 am to The Pirate King
Posted on 11/20/24 at 11:15 am to The Pirate King
quote:
Literally our entire offensive run-scheme is zone-read/RPO based. Without the threat of a QB run it just becomes a slow arse handoff going east and west way behind the line with no momentum forward from the running back.
No it isn't and those are two different things anyway.
This post was edited on 11/20/24 at 11:16 am
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Posted on 11/20/24 at 11:25 am to classicgold
We need a sticky. An FAQ. Visual presentation that shows the difference between RPO and Zone Read.
This comes up way too much.
This comes up way too much.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 11:27 am to classicgold
What is the base offense? No one knows. Therein lies the problem. RPO, read option, pro style, pistol all end with the same result when you have a QB and OC incapable of making the correct reads. That's what we have. No offensive identity because our QB and OC are over their heads. Label it what you want, it's inept.
Whatever we are running isn't the "base" offense. You don't recruit Underwood to run the offense Nuss is running. If so then even more ammo to fire Sloan.
Whatever we are running isn't the "base" offense. You don't recruit Underwood to run the offense Nuss is running. If so then even more ammo to fire Sloan.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 11:45 am to Safety Blitz
quote:
Does a true running QB make this offense work?
IMO short answer = yes.
Daniels avg ~900 yards/yr in this offense 2022-23
We ranked 8th and 2nd respectively with JD5.
Nuss has -32 yards YTD 2024 and we rank 16th in SEC in rushing
if you subtract out the QB yards, this is what our offense is avg per game rushing.... (SEC ranking)
2022 - 120.6 YPG (8th)
2023 - 117.3 YPG (2nd)
2024 - 118.8 YPG (16th)
again... this is total rushing yards per game MINUS QB rushing yards
So, we are getting roughly about what we've always gotten from Kelly's offense from a non-QB rusher. but look at where that ranks in the SEC. this tells me that this offense ONLY works with a QB who runs.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 11:45 am to Safety Blitz
I believe you have your answer.
-There is no Read Option to worry about. Nuss isn't going to keep it so DE's crash down to RB.
-On passing plays you don't really have to worry about keeping running lanes closed for a QB that doesn't scramble.
-You don't have to use a LB as a spy on a running QB, so you can keep him in coverage for an RB or TE or you can feel confident in blitzing him often.
-There is no Read Option to worry about. Nuss isn't going to keep it so DE's crash down to RB.
-On passing plays you don't really have to worry about keeping running lanes closed for a QB that doesn't scramble.
-You don't have to use a LB as a spy on a running QB, so you can keep him in coverage for an RB or TE or you can feel confident in blitzing him often.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 11:51 am to jp4lsu
Does Sloan not understand this? Or have they conceded this year for what it is, just a gap year that lets Nuss win or lose with his arm?
Posted on 11/20/24 at 11:59 am to SkoTigahsss
quote:
100% yes. You can't run an RPO based offense with a quarterback who refuses to pull it.
You have no idea what an RPO is. And judging by your upvotes, neither does most of this board.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 12:17 pm to chalupa
I think the problem with our RPO is defenses don’t respect the rush aspect. we don’t get a push up front from our OL. in fact, if you subtract out QB runs mostly by Daniels, LSU is below average.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 12:27 pm to The Pirate King
quote:
Literally our entire offensive run-scheme is zone-read/RPO based.
literally it’s not.
every spread offense runs inside zone
not every inside zone is a zone read.
We probably run less rpo’s than most college teams.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 12:31 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
literally it’s not. every spread offense runs inside zone not every inside zone is a zone read. We probably run less rpo’s than most college teams.
We don't run straight inside zone. We run slow mesh zone-read handoff with Nuss, who is zero threat to run. It's the same offense as was used for Jayden with the run capability removed. Instead of installing a true run game, we use the same playbook and just removed the QB run capability. It's one of the reasons the run game has been so bad.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 12:45 pm to Safety Blitz
I agree with the assessment that JD made our entire offense work last year, 100% on his scrambling ability. It is hilarious to read when our rushing yards were so good, therefore our Oline deserves much credit. Yes, they deserve credit in a negative way because JD made all of that rushing yardage on his own scrambling ability, not because it was a well devised play and blocking.
The sad part of our offense is that we are running the identical offense without that dynamic, once in a lifetime scrambling QB. That tells me that the coaches are just either plain lazy or they (maybe BK led) just thought we shouldn't change an offense that led the nation last year. That just seems totally absurd to me and being totally unrealistic about what makes an offense work.
The sad part of our offense is that we are running the identical offense without that dynamic, once in a lifetime scrambling QB. That tells me that the coaches are just either plain lazy or they (maybe BK led) just thought we shouldn't change an offense that led the nation last year. That just seems totally absurd to me and being totally unrealistic about what makes an offense work.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 12:47 pm to Safety Blitz
of course a dual threat would make our offense be more successful but i think our biggest problem with our running game is we get stuffed for a run or 2 and quickly abandon the run. In the 2 games where we didn't give up on the run (SC & UF) we were very successful.
Tempo has hurt us also. I have no stats to back it up but it seems we put our OL at a disadvantage with having them in their stance too long and checking play or blocking schemes and having to snap the ball with less than 5 seconds on the play clock. Most of the time it seems the defense gives us a look and then checks out of the look or was just giving us a look that they knew would get a reaction and we end up looking out of sorts and confused or get false start penalties. I would rather see us break the huddle and just run the damn play called.
Tempo has hurt us also. I have no stats to back it up but it seems we put our OL at a disadvantage with having them in their stance too long and checking play or blocking schemes and having to snap the ball with less than 5 seconds on the play clock. Most of the time it seems the defense gives us a look and then checks out of the look or was just giving us a look that they knew would get a reaction and we end up looking out of sorts and confused or get false start penalties. I would rather see us break the huddle and just run the damn play called.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 12:48 pm to Safety Blitz
quote:Doesn't have to be a true running QB, but a QB who can run makes any offense better.
Does a true running QB make this offense work?
With the typical defensive coverage of a spread offense, you have five defensive players covering four receivers.
That leaves six defensive players (four lineman and two linebackers) for seven offensive players (five lineman, one QB, and one RB).
On a running play, if the QB simply hands the ball to the RB, the QB occupies no defender, no defender is responsible for him. That leaves five offensive lineman to block six defenders. The offense is outnumbered.
On a zone read, the QB occupies the backside DE. That leaves five offensive linemen to block five defenders. That allows the offense to get a hat on a hat for every defender, and the RB should have a successful run. If the backside DE decides to ignore the QB and tackle the RB, the QB keeps the ball and runs for a big gain. Any QB run play (zone read, bash, QB draw, etc.) forces the defense to account for the QB or pay the price of the QB's rushing yards.
A QB who can run gives the offense an extra player.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 12:49 pm to QB
Our actual YTD 2024 stats support your argument
Posted on 11/20/24 at 12:52 pm to The Pirate King
quote:
We don't run straight inside zone. We run slow mesh zone-read handoff with Nuss, who is zero threat to run. It's the same offense as was used for Jayden with the run capability removed. Instead of installing a true run game, we use the same playbook and just removed the QB run capability. It's one of the reasons the run game has been so bad.
1. We didn’t run that many read options with Jayden. He got most of his yards on scrambles.
2. You’re just not watching film. We run a ton of inside zone, but we also run counters, we rarely run any real. Zone Option plays. There just isn’t a read played being released. It’s straight up inside zone.
Nuss may jog off but that doesn’t mean he ever had the option to pull it.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 12:53 pm to Safety Blitz
quote:
I believe Jayden Daniels completely warped the running schemes for two years
Yeah he covered up a lot
It's now becoming evident that this offense doesn't work without a superstar true dual threat QB and first round caliber wide outs. Without the dream team on offense the system doesn't work
Posted on 11/20/24 at 1:00 pm to Powerman
quote:
It's now becoming evident that this offense doesn't work without a superstar true dual threat QB and first round caliber wide outs. Without the dream team on offense the system doesn't work
I think it’s fair to say there is a lot of room for variation between Superstar Duel Threat QB and 1st Round WRs and what we are putting in the field.
Scheme wise we’re not doing anything insane, but if your OL has trouble block, your RBs (besides Durham) have trouble reading blocks, your QB get fooled if a defense can do anything to decide their coverage and your WR drop balls and don’t get a ton of separation you’re going to have issues.
and ultimately that all still falls on the coaches, but I think the scheme could work if people were executing at even a good not great level.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 1:58 pm to s2
quote:
RPO or pocket passer?
Pocket Passers can Run RPOs.
I getting this carved on my tombstone.
quote:
don't need but would help?
Yes, you can have success without, but I would always pick a true dual threat.
the problem is it’s hard to find good passers.
and finding good passers who are also athletic are also hard.
So “dual threat” is too often a runner and just a single threat.
But if you had a B+ Passer and a A- Runner if strong consider him over a A Passer C- Runner.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 2:07 pm to SkoTigahsss
quote:
You can't run an RPO based offense with a quarterback who refuses to pull it.
LMFAO and RPO does not require the QB to keep it and run it. RPO is usually a handoff or a throw behind it.
What you meant to say was that the run game cannot function properly with a zone read style run without the QB pulling it.
RPOs do not need a running QB at all.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 2:07 pm to chalupa
Run pass option buddy. Lol the zone read and an RPO do have the same base principals. Your quarterback has to be able to make reads in both concepts. But tell me more about how I don't know what i'm talking about oh glorious one
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