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re: USC - 2003 National Championship
Posted on 12/19/22 at 12:53 pm to MikeTheTiger71
Posted on 12/19/22 at 12:53 pm to MikeTheTiger71
Sure.. BUT it seems to be the only time it listed since the BCS.. RIGHT? Everyone agreed to the BCS... Another question.. If the roles were reversed... Would LSU have been called the AP champion?
2
Posted on 12/19/22 at 12:58 pm to Scatback1
quote:
Everyone agreed to the BCS
Ya'll know that you cant just make stuff up, type it and it becomes true right?
Posted on 12/19/22 at 1:08 pm to Scatback1
quote:
Sure.. BUT it seems to be the only time it listed since the BCS.. RIGHT? Everyone agreed to the BCS... Another question.. If the roles were reversed... Would LSU have been called the AP champion?
That only points to the fact that 2003 was the only year that the AP #1 was left out of the BCS title game. If LSU had been AP #1 and had been left out of the title game, then, yes, they would have been recognized as the AP national champions.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 1:13 pm to MikeTheTiger71
quote:
No, they have a legitimate AP Trophy for being #1 and winning their bowl.
No they don’t. They have a trophy which was superseded by the BCS which they signed on to and agreed with. Their conference signed as a BCS participant.
The only reason the AP did what they did was because they were felling irrelevant which they are. The AP withdrew from the BCS and pulled a stunt but in reality the AP was one of the main reasons for the Conferences (including the PAC12) signing on and setting up the BCS which was designed to put the #1 & #2 teams together and have a Championship. Being the fact that USC was #3 and they played a lesser opponent at #6 it was a bogus “Championship” and it still is.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 1:13 pm to geauxtigers33
quote:
The bigger issue is Oklahoma playing in the national championship game after getting blown out by Kansas State in the Big 12 championship.
And that primarily happened because the public demanded that margin of victory be taken out of the formula. Unfortunately, that also meant margin of loss was ignored. The most debated BCS title matchups (except possibly Bama getting in in 2011) came about from that change. (Nebraska in 2001 and Oklahoma in 2003.)
This post was edited on 12/19/22 at 1:24 pm
Posted on 12/19/22 at 1:22 pm to rob62
quote:
No they don’t. They have a trophy which was superseded by the BCS which they signed on to and agreed with. Their conference signed as a BCS participant.
You all keep repeating this same talking point, but not one of you can produce a single piece of evidence that anything in the BCS agreement stated that the BCS winner would be the ONLY champion. It guaranteed the winner would be the Coaches’ Poll champion, nothing more, nothing less.
quote:
The only reason the AP did what they did was because they were felling irrelevant which they are.
The AP did not do anything different that season than they had done in any season either prior to or after that season. The team ranked #1 in their final regular season poll won their bowl and maintained their #1 ranking. There is no instance in any other season that the team ranked #1 in the final regular season AP poll won their bowl game and did not end up #1.
This post was edited on 12/19/22 at 1:23 pm
Posted on 12/19/22 at 1:22 pm to rob62
quote:
The AP withdrew from the BCS
No they didn't, they told the BCS to stop using the AP poll in the formula without the AP's permission. They did this after a season where the BCS decided to put a team that got blown out in the CCG into the national championship game - exposing the flaw of the BCS.
Start with, "It was bullshite to put Oklahoma in the championship game" and go from there. It will lead you to a split title because the two best teams didn't actually play each other as the BCS had promised everyone they would.
The BCS fricked up 2003, not anyone else.
This post was edited on 12/19/22 at 1:30 pm
Posted on 12/19/22 at 1:33 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
USC’s claim is legitimate but the BCS didn’t frick up 2003, it just didn’t give the output the media wanted. Before championship weekend Oklahoma was considered by most media a historically great team and there was a lot of talk they would be in regardless of the Kansas State outcome. But when LSU made it in over USC everyone lost their shite.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 1:55 pm to MOT
quote:
the BCS didn’t frick up 2003
Yeah, they did. By the existing rules, OK deserved to get in, but they shouldn't have been eligible. I'm not aware of a sport on the planet where you can lose a game, and your next game is the championship game/series. The structure for a playoff tournament is right there and they should have used it. They chose not to correct it afterwards because they are driven by game matchups for tv and they're afraid some ugly matchups could occur.
The basic rule they should have adopted was you can't advance unless your conference champion advances. The expanded playoff and the way the expanded conferences seem to be organizing will probably assure this happens.
This post was edited on 12/19/22 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 12/19/22 at 2:18 pm to MOT
quote:
the BCS didn’t frick up 2003
Yes it did. The BCS teamed LSU up with Oklahoma when they should've been teamed up with USC. While that may not have been clear before the conference championship games, it was after.
I don't care about "talk" or "everyone", it was a mistake to put OU in after their loss, the BCS is the one that made that mistake, therefore the BCS fricked it up.
Imagine if the BCS had put LSU and USC in the CG. Who would've been losing their shite, then? Just OU fans. It would've been fine.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 2:45 pm to MikeTheTiger71
You’re wrong about the majority of public opinion in 03.
Like other posters have stated, and the hype leading up to THE National Championship game will confirm… LSU won the 03 BCS National Championship. The championship game of the BCS era.
You seem upset or offended that the AP is considered of lesser significance of that time frame, but outside of USC, it’s fans, some of the national media, and the AP… it was definitely of lesser significance. The goal of every team that year was to win THE National Championship game. I don’t remember LSU winning the Coaches Trophy, because what I do remember is LSU winning the National Title game and being the National Champs. So in a way what I’m saying is.. I (like most) don’t really care who won the AP or Coaches trophies. I care who won the National Title game, and the trophy hoist afterwards as being synonymous with THE National Championship trophy that year.
Go look up any of the videos leading up to the game. It is referred to as THE National Title / Championship game.
You suggest that if the scenario were reversed we’d be claiming that AP title just like USC. Maybe you’re correct, and on paper I would probably be happy that we could say we had claim to another “National Title”, but deep down inside, I’d always know that we didn’t play for and win THE National Title game.
LSU fans are passionate about it because the media and people like you try to reframe history to make USCs accomplishment seem bigger than it was while effectively downplaying LSU’s accomplishment that year, which was winning THE National Championship game, and THE National Title. It’s revisionist history to suggest that the majority of the public did not recognize the BCS champion as THE National Champion.
The BCS title game and “Crystal Ball” trophy did have more legitimacy, but for more reason than just winning the trophy. LSU won THE National Championship game and was THE National Champion.
Like other posters have stated, and the hype leading up to THE National Championship game will confirm… LSU won the 03 BCS National Championship. The championship game of the BCS era.
You seem upset or offended that the AP is considered of lesser significance of that time frame, but outside of USC, it’s fans, some of the national media, and the AP… it was definitely of lesser significance. The goal of every team that year was to win THE National Championship game. I don’t remember LSU winning the Coaches Trophy, because what I do remember is LSU winning the National Title game and being the National Champs. So in a way what I’m saying is.. I (like most) don’t really care who won the AP or Coaches trophies. I care who won the National Title game, and the trophy hoist afterwards as being synonymous with THE National Championship trophy that year.
Go look up any of the videos leading up to the game. It is referred to as THE National Title / Championship game.
You suggest that if the scenario were reversed we’d be claiming that AP title just like USC. Maybe you’re correct, and on paper I would probably be happy that we could say we had claim to another “National Title”, but deep down inside, I’d always know that we didn’t play for and win THE National Title game.
LSU fans are passionate about it because the media and people like you try to reframe history to make USCs accomplishment seem bigger than it was while effectively downplaying LSU’s accomplishment that year, which was winning THE National Championship game, and THE National Title. It’s revisionist history to suggest that the majority of the public did not recognize the BCS champion as THE National Champion.
The BCS title game and “Crystal Ball” trophy did have more legitimacy, but for more reason than just winning the trophy. LSU won THE National Championship game and was THE National Champion.
This post was edited on 12/19/22 at 3:13 pm
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:01 pm to loweralabamatrojan
Guess this is a Liberal good ball.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:17 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:It worked the way it was supposed to. People didn’t like the outcome it so it changed. Then people didn’t like the replacement so it changed to a playoff. Then people didn’t like the playoff so they’re expanding it.
the BCS is the one that made that mistake
Newsflash, people are always going to bitch about the teams who get in.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:20 pm to JCPegasus
quote:
I don’t remember LSU winning the Coaches Trophy
Seriously?
Then maybe you should shut up about 2003.
Here's a pic of Saban with the Coaches trophy immediately following the game:
Here's a picture of it on its base:
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:23 pm to juice4lsu
Not the National Championship, but rather the AP Title. LSU won the BCS NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:25 pm to JCPegasus
quote:
You’re wrong about the majority of public opinion in 03.
Then it should be relatively easy for you to provide links showing a different public sentiment. Every article I have found shows general acceptance of LSU and USC as co-champions.
quote:
You seem upset or offended that the AP is considered of lesser significance of that time frame, but outside of USC, it’s fans, some of the national media, and the AP
I am most certainly not the one displaying an emotional response in this debate. I have no attachment to the AP or USC, I’m an LSU fan. I’m just not prone to revisionist history in order to make my team look better. The thing that actually baffles the most is why it even matters. LSU was national champions. Whether USC was also recognized as such does nothing to change or diminish that.
quote:
I don’t remember LSU winning the Coaches Trophy,
That’s what the “crystal ball” is. The BCS did not have its own trophy.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:25 pm to Indiana Tiger
quote:Correct, so there wasn’t a mistake. Were the formulas supposed to be tweaked on the fly to arrive at the outcome everyone wanted?
By the existing rules, OK deserved to get in,
quote:But they were.
they shouldn't have been eligible
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:25 pm to MOT
quote:
It worked the way it was supposed to.
No, it didn't, the two best teams didn't get in. It worked the way it was designed. The design was flawed, so they changed it.
quote:Not anymore with the CFP. The two best teams have made the championship game each season.
Newsflash, people are always going to bitch about the teams who get in.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:29 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
It worked the way it was designed. The design was flawed, so they changed it.
quote:Something must have been flawed in the CFP design if they had to expand it.
Not anymore with the CFP. The two best teams have made the championship game each season.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:45 pm to MikeTheTiger71
Me stating that, “I don’t remember LSU winning the Coaches Trophy” was an exaggeration to make the point that to many people, many LSU fans specifically… that trophy hoist was THE National Championship trophy. For all of the reasons that I stated above.
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