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re: Was Smoke a bad hire at the time?
Posted on 6/14/21 at 11:20 pm to ell_13
Posted on 6/14/21 at 11:20 pm to ell_13
While Smoke was well liked by fans close to the program at the time, most thought he was not "smart" enough to handle all the duties of the job. He was very bad at handling the media and parents of players. Skip was a master at these. Smoke was very knowledgeable about on field issues but was nowhere close to Skip in devising and implementing strategy during games. Unless you watched all the games and knew baseball strategy, you didn't realize that Skip was probably worth about 1/2 run advantage per game with his ability to predict the actions of the opposing coach and players. Skip's ability to call pitches that confused the batter was uncanny(especially early in his LSU tenure). And his use of the media to convey messages to his players, sometimes without also saying it to them, was legendary and has now been mastered by Nick Saban.
The biggest issue that caused Smoke's undoing was probably that he wanted to separate himself from Skip by doing things totally different than his predecessor. This was a great irritant to Skip to the point of Skip saying, "Smoke would change the f*&%#$g games to 7 innings if he could just to be different from me." After this many of us knew Smoke's time was short lived.
The biggest issue that caused Smoke's undoing was probably that he wanted to separate himself from Skip by doing things totally different than his predecessor. This was a great irritant to Skip to the point of Skip saying, "Smoke would change the f*&%#$g games to 7 innings if he could just to be different from me." After this many of us knew Smoke's time was short lived.
2
Posted on 6/14/21 at 11:43 pm to LongTime Tiger
I heard from players that Smoke ran the practices as an assistant. I think Skip didn’t realize the social skills needed. Maybe since it came naturally to him.
Posted on 6/14/21 at 11:44 pm to thelawnwranglers
Was definitely meh. Robe would have been the hire in my opinion at the time..
Posted on 6/14/21 at 11:46 pm to MOT
Smoke was also on Skip’s first staff or shortly thereafter
Posted on 6/15/21 at 12:27 am to Draconian Sanctions
He was an assistant at lsu 1979 - that was news to me.
LSU assistant 1984-1993
LSU assistant 2001- basically head coach in waiting.
LSU assistant 1984-1993
LSU assistant 2001- basically head coach in waiting.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 12:28 am to ell_13
quote:
Most people simply trusted Skip.
We certainly did. With all he did for the program, he deserved the right to handpick his successor. I personally thought LSU would just continue to dominate. That’s all I knew about LSU baseball. We dominated. And it was obviously one of those instances where it didn’t work out.
This post was edited on 6/15/21 at 12:29 am
Posted on 6/15/21 at 12:29 am to thelawnwranglers
Never let a legend choose his successor.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 2:27 am to TigerinKorea
quote:
That’s all I knew about LSU baseball. We dominated.
I think this is part of the problem. A lot of people didn’t think about baseball until we started winning. They didn’t remember that even for Skip it took 7 years of hard work to win the first one.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 4:50 am to LongTime Tiger
quote:
While Smoke was well liked by fans close to the program at the time, most thought he was not "smart" enough to handle all the duties of the job. He was very bad at handling the media and parents of players. Skip was a master at these. Smoke was very knowledgeable about on field issues but was nowhere close to Skip in devising and implementing strategy during games. Unless you watched all the games and knew baseball strategy, you didn't realize that Skip was probably worth about 1/2 run advantage per game with his ability to predict the actions of the opposing coach and players. Skip's ability to call pitches that confused the batter was uncanny(especially early in his LSU tenure). And his use of the media to convey messages to his players, sometimes without also saying it to them, was legendary and has now been mastered by Nick Saban.
The biggest issue that caused Smoke's undoing was probably that he wanted to separate himself from Skip by doing things totally different than his predecessor. This was a great irritant to Skip to the point of Skip saying, "Smoke would change the f*&%#$g games to 7 innings if he could just to be different from me." After this many of us knew Smoke's time was short lived.
Wow. You are the first person that really understands and explains what happened. Thank you.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 5:11 am to thelawnwranglers
quote:
Was Smoke a bad hire at the time?
Smoke was an arrogant arse and not nearly as smart as he thought he was.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:08 am to thelawnwranglers
Turtle Thomas should’ve been named the head coach
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:11 am to MOT
quote:
I forget who all he officially interviewed but there was definitely a big photo op when he met with Cador. He probably knew it was going to be Smoke all along.
I think the job was Wells's but Skip still wanted the camp money. Wells balked at that, Smoke did not.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:22 am to Gaspasr1
Hiring turtle is the same issue we current have with I am I getting hired. Instead of looking for the best we go after guys with lsu connections. Same with smoke. Thomas was not successful in his only head coaching job.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:48 am to mgdtiger
Smoke didn't recruit well. That last team had little talent. Paul dismissed several in the off season. Remember Jordan Meyer? He recruited the wrong players for the type of game college baseball was at the time. Skip tried to help him his last year but Smoke actually blew him off.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:19 am to prplhze2000
The camp money theory is the absolute truth. I actually saw a copy of the check. 100,000 dollars.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:25 am to thelawnwranglers
No! The last of the bacca chewing generalists. Thought so at the time.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:10 am to thelawnwranglers
He was Skip's right hand man as an assistant for a long time , then had some success as a head coach at a mid major. Those were good credentials. I will not say it was a terrible hire.
I just think that Smoke was in over his head and he obviously paled in comparison to his predecessor.
I remember hearing Smoke give speeches during that year he was coach in waiting. He was articulate and funny. I contrasted that with banquet speeches I heard him give toward the end of his tenure when he looked aged and worn down.
I think the job was too big for him at the time.
I just think that Smoke was in over his head and he obviously paled in comparison to his predecessor.
I remember hearing Smoke give speeches during that year he was coach in waiting. He was articulate and funny. I contrasted that with banquet speeches I heard him give toward the end of his tenure when he looked aged and worn down.
I think the job was too big for him at the time.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:34 am to prplhze2000
quote:
Smoke didn't recruit well. That last team had little talent. Paul dismissed several in the off season. Remember Jordan Meyer? He recruited the wrong players for the type of game college baseball was at the time.
I thought the biggest problem is Smoke went after players that were TOO talented? Meaning hardly any of the guys he signed ended up on campus. I remember reading an article about MLB basically targeting anyone LSU signed.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:39 am to TigerinKorea
quote:
With all he did for the program, he deserved the right to handpick his successor.
No and this should pretty much never be a thing.
He gave it to Smoke out of loyalty because he was there in the early days and because he was one of the few that would take his scheisty camp deal. Neither of which made him deserving of the job he got
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:41 am to JJ27
quote:Yes. That's what I meant by being arrogant. He was a lazy recruiter. He'd simply going after the highest rated guys, miss because he didn't try hard and thought LSU would recruit itself, and they'd go to MLB. We were stuck with a lot of mediocre local talent as a result.
I thought the biggest problem is Smoke went after players that were TOO talented? Meaning hardly any of the guys he signed ended up on campus. I remember reading an article about MLB basically targeting anyone LSU signed.
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