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re: Negro League stats to count
Posted on 5/29/24 at 7:51 am to LCLa
Posted on 5/29/24 at 7:51 am to LCLa
Just looked.
May not be completely done uploading but it appears this will only affect average/OPS type records - which raises even more questions, like is it fair that Josh Gibson is now the all time batting average leader despite only playing in 602 games in 14 years.
Very low number of games played per season.
Gibson 166 career homers.
Paige 124 career wins.
May not be completely done uploading but it appears this will only affect average/OPS type records - which raises even more questions, like is it fair that Josh Gibson is now the all time batting average leader despite only playing in 602 games in 14 years.
Very low number of games played per season.
Gibson 166 career homers.
Paige 124 career wins.
2
Posted on 5/29/24 at 7:57 am to LCLa
Gibson doesn’t have the required PA for career average, but they are showing him with the top two OPS seasons in history. He played 39 games and 69 games in those seasons.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:31 am to PrimeTime Money
quote:
That advantage is less important in a sport like baseball. And because white people have a much larger population than black people, the odds are that the larger talent pool would be a bigger advantage than the athletic advantage black people have.
There was a Sports Illustrated cover story in the 2000's basically asking, is baseball too white? What happened to the black American players? Basically their historical percentage on the field being replaced by Latin Americans.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:38 am to LCLa
Is Manfred going to un-retire #42 now?
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:45 am to LCLa
quote:
Gibson doesn’t have the required PA for career average, but they are showing him with the top two OPS seasons in history. He played 39 games and 69 games in those seasons.
This is absurd
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:46 am to LCLa
So dumb. The accuracy of those stats is questionable, at best.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:02 pm to VADawg
Ty Cobb still the all time leader in Batting Average. Gibson and his little league schedule don’t even come close. 2100 at bats to 13000, gimme a break.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:07 pm to HangmanPage1
Noone is gonna give a shite about these stats, just like noone cares about Cap Anson being 5th in career RBIs
stats from the old days are cool for trivia purposes, but overall they are meaningless. it's a different game today.
stats from the old days are cool for trivia purposes, but overall they are meaningless. it's a different game today.
This post was edited on 5/29/24 at 3:10 pm
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:14 pm to HangmanPage1
quote:
Gibson and his little league schedule don’t even come close. 2100 at bats to 13000, gimme a break.
If I understand correctly he wouldn't even rank in the top 1000 in total ABs.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:50 pm to HangmanPage1
quote:
Ty Cobb still the all time leader in Batting Average. Gibson and his little league schedule don’t even come close. 2100 at bats to 13000, gimme a break.
Gibson has 11 career strikeouts and 359 walks (32.64 BB/K) That says something about the pitching he faced. That would be alien like if he had those stats in MLB in any era. Which tells me the pitching he faced wasn’t close to major league level. Obviously he faced some great pitchers but overall the strikeout to walk ratios of the top Negro league players tells the story.
Other now top 10 batting average players from the Negro leagues:
Jud Wilson 5 strikeouts, 417 walks (83.40 BB/K)
Turkey Stearnes 5 strikeouts, 424 walks (84.80 BB/K)
Buck Leonard 14 strikeouts, 418 walks (29.86 BB/K)
For comparison
Babe Ruth 1,330 strikeouts, 2,062 walks (1.6 BB/K)
Ty Cobb 357 strikeouts, 1,249 walks (3.5 BB/K)
Ted Williams 709 strikeouts, 2.019 walks (2.84 BB/K)
The BB/K ratio makes no sense. Either they were not recording strikeouts or the Negro league hitters were facing horrible pitching.
What a joke. Honor these players but no reason to mess up the MLB record book.
This post was edited on 5/29/24 at 4:02 pm
Posted on 5/29/24 at 4:41 pm to Musashi
quote:
Obviously he faced some great pitchers but overall the strikeout to walk ratios of the top Negro league players tells the story.
Other now top 10 batting average players from the Negro leagues:
Jud Wilson 5 strikeouts, 417 walks (83.40 BB/K)
Turkey Stearnes 5 strikeouts, 424 walks (84.80 BB/K)
Buck Leonard 14 strikeouts, 418 walks (29.86 BB/K)
baseball reference doesn't even list strikeouts for these guys. did the negro league even record it?
Posted on 5/29/24 at 5:06 pm to LCLa
Does this mean that Jackie Robinson will no longer be credited with breaking the color barrier since Eddie Klep joined the Negro League a year before Robinson joined the MLB?
Posted on 5/29/24 at 5:18 pm to Corinthians420
quote:
baseball reference doesn't even list strikeouts for these guys. did the negro league even record it?
That’s the question. If they didn’t record strikeouts what else did or didn’t they record. The entire merging of these stats is dubious.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 5:51 pm to LCLa
MLB got bullied into doing this during the 2020 BLM shake downs of businesses, entertainment, sports, etc.. that’s when it started and the only reason it happened.
Like others have said, honor these players like they always have, but it is absolutely comical to add the numbers to the MLB record books. Complete joke.
Like others have said, honor these players like they always have, but it is absolutely comical to add the numbers to the MLB record books. Complete joke.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 6:00 pm to LCLa
I mean, I'm okay with it, but, it just seems like a giant pandering sandwich by the MLB.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 6:09 pm to LCLa
Josh Gibson is one of the greatest hitters of all time but I’m never going to say he’s the record holder for BA or slugging..
Posted on 5/29/24 at 6:20 pm to Stealth Matrix
quote:
I mean, I'm okay with it, but, it just seems like a giant pandering sandwich by the MLB.
Pandering is 100% all this is about. Also, no one should be okay with it for the simple reason of why stop here?
Why not count all of the minor league numbers over the last 120+ years as well considering that all of those teams would sweep and mop the floor with the league that got added today?
There are countless reasons why this shouldn’t have happened.
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Posted on 5/29/24 at 6:42 pm to ZIGG
You’ve got to love it for legendary racist Ty Cobb.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 6:55 pm to stlslick
O asterisk necessary.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 7:11 pm to sorantable
quote:
You’ve got to love it for legendary racist Ty Cobb.
Another one who gobbled up the bullshite that Al Stump published to try and make a name for himself.
Al Stump was a lying sack of dogshit
quote:
What about race? It is “common knowledge” that Cobb was “an avowed racist”—but when and where did he make such a vow and where is it recorded? A 1984 biography of Cobb, written by a college professor named Charles Alexander, is typical. It describes three people who fought with Cobb—a night watchman, a bellhop, and a butcher—as being black. Such evidence was enough for documentary filmmaker Ken Burns, whose made-for-PBS series Baseball described Cobb as an embarrassment to the game because of his racism and cast Cobb as the anti-Jackie Robinson.
But Burns, like so many others, was letting himself be misled by the oft-repeated myth. Looking into census reports, birth certificates, and contemporary newspaper accounts, I found that all three of the black fighters cited by Charles Alexander were in fact white. Yes, Cobb had also fought with two black men during his life, but those fights didn’t have racial overtones, and Cobb—who had an extremely thin skin—fought with many more white men. So how did such a distinguished author make such obvious mistakes? When I asked Alexander about this, he simply replied, “I went with the best information I had at the time.”
But what about Cobb’s 19th-century Southern roots? How could someone born in Georgia in 1886 not be a racist? What I found—and again, not because I am the Babe Ruth of researchers, but because I actually did some research—is that Ty Cobb was descended from a long line of abolitionists. His great-grandfather was a minister who preached against slavery and was run out of town for it. His grandfather refused to fight in the Confederate army because of the slavery issue. And his father was an educator and state senator who spoke up for his black constituents and is known to have once broken up a lynch mob.
Cobb himself was never asked about segregation until 1952, when the Texas League was integrating, and Sporting News asked him what he thought. “The Negro should be accepted wholeheartedly, and not grudgingly,” he said. “The Negro has the right to play professional baseball and whose [sic] to say he has not?” By that time he had attended many Negro league games, sometimes throwing out the first ball and often sitting in the dugout with the players. He is quoted as saying that Willie Mays was the only modern-day player he’d pay to see and that Roy Campanella was the ballplayer that reminded him most of himself.
Anyone who still parrots those Al Stump lies is just as much of a piece of shite as he is.
This post was edited on 5/29/24 at 7:22 pm
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