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Posted on 2/4/10 at 8:07 am to Iona Fan Man
Whatever happened hasn't necessarily happened....although a lot of it will happen in a different way. You can change fate, but it's hard.
Also, I like some of what Kash has. I do think there is something to MIB not being completely evil.....no one is completely evil on the island. When you go back to Jacob and MIB's conversation....there is a lot there. They are both two more characters in a show about characters
Also, I like some of what Kash has. I do think there is something to MIB not being completely evil.....no one is completely evil on the island. When you go back to Jacob and MIB's conversation....there is a lot there. They are both two more characters in a show about characters
Posted on 2/4/10 at 8:11 am to Uncle Stu
quote:
or is it important that Christian's body never makes it back to LA?
maybe when a body gets on the island or someone dies there the MIB can "copy" it to screw with people. like he did with jacks dad, and charlie, and ben's daughtersince the coffin made it there the first time maybe it couldn't get off. hell maybe jacob can do it too but he could leave the island and thats why hurley kept seeing all those dead people.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 8:46 am to Sandkhan
quote:
Whatever happened hasn't necessarily happened
I agree. Those who keep saying "Whatever happened, happened. You can't avoid your fate" are missing a pretty essential theme with the show that free will > fate. Also, if "whatever happened, happened," there would be no point to any of the show. Slow as it may be, it's all progress.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 9:07 am to Hot Carl
quote:
Slow as it may be, it's all progress.
so insightful
we all remember the scene - grow your own opinion next time
Posted on 2/4/10 at 9:11 am to Uncle Stu
quote:
so insightful
we all remember the scene - grow your own opinion next time
Posted on 2/4/10 at 9:25 am to Uncle Stu
quote:
so insightful
we all remember the scene - grow your own opinion next time
I was clearly alluding to that scene, cocksucker.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 9:44 am to filmmaker45
quote:
I think the bomb split time into reality and alternate reality.
Desmond was on the plane, Shannon stayed, Hurley was lucky, and John went on the Walk about. Not only did the plane not crash but this that happened way before the characters even considered flying have changed.
Well, remember when Desmond was jumping around to "alternate" realities in that one episode. One minute he was on the island, then he was in military training, the monastery, etc. Maybe he is still capable of doing that, which is why we see him on the plane, and then not on it.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 9:48 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
Well, remember when Desmond was jumping around to "alternate" realities in that one episode.
It's been a while, but I don't think he was jumping around to alternate realities as much as he was jumping around to different points in time in the same reality.
Also, to someone else's point about us not seeing Desmond after we see Charlie on the plane, I'm pretty sure that the writers/producers said this was just a coincidence on Kimmel Tuesday night.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 9:48 am to Hot Carl
I am starting to think that Smokie was trying Eko out to see if he could be his Guinea pig. But when Eko refused to confess Smokie realized that Eko wasn't easily manipulated and then killed him. Locke on the other hand was easier and became his target.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 9:51 am to CocomoLSU
Well, the island is sunken. So it wasn't in the way for Desmond to get stuck on it when he was doing his sailing race, so he ended up in Australia (for an extended stay apparently).
This is the key I think. How are people affected since the island sunk or was covered in water? Obviously Juliet must be back in the real world, as she could never go to the island...
Hurley is "lucky" and not "cursed" because there are no "numbers". (But then what numbers does he use to win the lottery?)
Shannon not being on the plane (outside of real life casting difficulties) has to be explained by somehow her boyfriend in Australia doesn't leave her or whatever. (This guy was the cop that arrested Sawyer, wasn't he? Maybe Sawyer is involved somehow?)
Locke is happy, not bitter, but unless he lied, he was allowed to go on his walk about, which means somehow the guy running that company has been acted upon or even replaced with someone else, by the island not being there.
They've done a good job of showing us how everyone is intertwined, and now the alternate reality is the result of those connections and the chain reaction that occurs when one thing is altered.
This is the key I think. How are people affected since the island sunk or was covered in water? Obviously Juliet must be back in the real world, as she could never go to the island...
Hurley is "lucky" and not "cursed" because there are no "numbers". (But then what numbers does he use to win the lottery?)
Shannon not being on the plane (outside of real life casting difficulties) has to be explained by somehow her boyfriend in Australia doesn't leave her or whatever. (This guy was the cop that arrested Sawyer, wasn't he? Maybe Sawyer is involved somehow?)
Locke is happy, not bitter, but unless he lied, he was allowed to go on his walk about, which means somehow the guy running that company has been acted upon or even replaced with someone else, by the island not being there.
They've done a good job of showing us how everyone is intertwined, and now the alternate reality is the result of those connections and the chain reaction that occurs when one thing is altered.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:03 am to Joe Mantegna
quote:
I did not read any of the thread beyond the final page but what does everyone think the theory of Flocke (fake locke) wanting to kill Jack before he saves Locke in the alternate timeline?
I guess it makes sense...I thought of this as soon as he gave locke his business card...
That's interesting. Maybe MIB wants to keep Locke dead because of how useful he is as MIB's pawn. I may be off on this, but can't the MIB/Smokie only take forms of people who are dead?
Also, if that's the case, then we can't rule out that MIB is also posing as Jacob on the island to get Hurley to follow his orders. I realize that's a stretch, but if MIB wanted the O6 to go to the temple, then Hurley was the key to getting that to happen.
Anyway, I'm just spitballing...feel free to shoot that down if I'm off on those thoughts..
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:06 am to OMLandshark
quote:
The love triangle better be over for good, since it would be just down right insulting to Juliet's memory if Sawyer hooked up with Kate. I'm fine with Kate and Jack being a couple, but Kate and Sawyer should be done for good.
Perhaps this ties in with earlier speculation in this thread that in the end, Jack and Sawyer become the new Jacob and MIB. Neither are completely good and neither are completely bad, but they have different methods of accomplishing their goals. Kate would be the counterpart to Richard, each having arrived in shackles . . . familiar with both and perhaps having served both masters at some point.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:07 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
Also, if that's the case, then we can't rule out that MIB is also posing as Jacob on the island to get Hurley to follow his orders. I realize that's a stretch, but if MIB wanted the O6 to go to the temple, then Hurley was the key to getting that to happen.
I like the thought of that, but, has anyone other than a select few seen Jacob? I mean, MIB could have been himself and told Hurley he was Jacob and he wouldnt have know any better.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:07 am to coloradoBengal
quote:
Locke is happy, not bitter, but unless he lied, he was allowed to go on his walk about, which means somehow the guy running that company has been acted upon or even replaced with someone else, by the island not being there.
Here is a bigger question: Locke was encouraged by Abaddon (sp?) to do the walk-about right? He wouldn't do that in the absence of the Island. For that matter, weren't most of the characters pushed on that plane by Island-related reasons?
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:09 am to The Godfather
I read the first few pages of the thread before the ep but haven't really checked it afterwards. And I just don't have the time to read 30+ pages so sorry because I'm sure this has been answered. Real quick question:
We're currently dealing with 2 timelines right? One in 2004 where the plane lands normally in LAX due to the bomb being detonated in 1977....and one in present day where the foot/temple/Ajira people, etc. are currently running around still. Is that right?
We're currently dealing with 2 timelines right? One in 2004 where the plane lands normally in LAX due to the bomb being detonated in 1977....and one in present day where the foot/temple/Ajira people, etc. are currently running around still. Is that right?
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:10 am to Hot Carl
quote:
Those who keep saying "Whatever happened, happened. You can't avoid your fate" are missing a pretty essential theme with the show that free will > fate.
Is that the essential theme? Sure Jacob believes in free will, but most of the characters are clinging onto fate and destiny right now. From the information we have right now, we can't conclude if free will is greater than fate. Plus the people in the alternate timeline will still probably be drawn in someway to the Island, which leads me to believe fate may be correct more than free will. I will agree though that the main theme of the show is free will vs fate, but we can make no conclusions which one is right.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:13 am to lsumatt
quote:
For that matter, weren't most of the characters pushed on that plane by Island-related reasons?
off the top of my head
Jack-getting his dad
Sawyer-looking for the con man sawyer
Kate-on the run
Claire-from Australia, heading to LA cause
psychic told her there was a family there for aaron (not sure if im remembering this correctly)
hurley-went to talk to the guy he got the numbers from (so he doesnt go there without the island more than likely)
Boone- went to get Shannon
Locke- walkabout ( i dont remember Abaddon encouraging him to go, i need to rewatch them)
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:16 am to lsumatt
quote:
I am starting to think that Smokie was trying Eko out to see if he could be his Guinea pig. But when Eko refused to confess Smokie realized that Eko wasn't easily manipulated and then killed him. Locke on the other hand was easier and became his target.
Eko probably had the most screwed up past of anyone on the Island and had done some horrible, horrible things. Ben makes it pretty clear that the Monster is a judge for the Island. The reason I think the Monster tooks special interest in Eko is to first of all get Locke to see the Pearl station, which would lead to the destruction of the hatch, and eventually lead Widmore's people to the Island (someone else came up with this good theory). Once Eko did that, the Monster said that it was time for Eko to repent and be judged. When Eko failed to comply with repenting, the Monster killed him.
And Eko wouldn't have been a good host body anyway. Sure he was intimidating, but there was nothing to suggest that Eko was "special". Locke was the absolute perfect host. The pieces had been in play since before Locke was born. Everyone believed Locke was special even from an early age, even though he really wasn't. He was extremely gullible and had paralysis, which I'm guessing the MIB healed him of to make it even more convincing that he is special. MIB had been working on getting Locke for 50 years, and it worked.
This post was edited on 2/4/10 at 10:19 am
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:23 am to coloradoBengal
quote:
Locke is happy, not bitter, but unless he lied, he was allowed to go on his walk about, which means somehow the guy running that company has been acted upon or even replaced with someone else, by the island not being there.
I am almost certain Locke was lying. The only reason he was on Flight 815 to begin with is because the Walkabout agency got him on it. Then again in this timeline Locke could have gone on his walkabout 10 days earlier and succeeded, but I seriously doubt it.
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