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re: What is the obsession with vinyl?
Posted on 7/25/23 at 10:24 am to wareaglepete
Posted on 7/25/23 at 10:24 am to wareaglepete
quote:The record and needle makes the sound on its own without them. You can put your ear up to it and hear it. It's all mechanical. That's the difference
Your preamp, amp, and speakers are more important to your sound than anything
This post was edited on 7/25/23 at 10:26 am
1
Posted on 7/25/23 at 10:33 am to el Gaucho
quote:
I would say that record collecting is another example of the infantilization of adults in our society just like dog momming and marvel movieing y’all just don’t want to admit it
I mean whatever keeps millenials from realizing that we are lab rats in a giant prison and nothing will give us true purpose
I can't imagine living life as miserably as you do. It sounds way too exhausting.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 10:39 am to themetalreb
Better sound and it’s fun to play records
Posted on 7/25/23 at 10:54 am to themetalreb
Here's my take on it. You'll get no downvote from me b/c this is very personal and subjective, no "right" answer except that it's all irrational lol.
* Engagement. To play a record, you aren't just conveniently scrolling an app on your phone or whatever with virtually the entire recorded history of music available. You SELECT a record to play, have to get up, pull it out, maybe clean it, put it on and actively participate. That just puts you in a different mindset to appreciate the music more.
* Tangibility. Physical media, large photos and notes are more fun to view.
* Sound quality - very debatable. Some have always insisted that analog is superior, but vinyl has limitations in signal to noise ratio and other areas. The claim that digital produces "square" waves is hogwash these days as they have long ago solved that problem. But a good vinyl pressing from a good source, played back on a high quality system, can be incredible. It takes more $ to do right than digital, though. I did a comparison a few months ago on this... a popular mid range turntable ($600 Pro-ject Carbon Debut EVO) vs a higher end (Technics SL-1200G with Soundsmith Aida cartridge) and the Debut just wasn't good enough. Big issues are speed stability and cartridge quality.
* Nostalgia - for me there is some of this as I have about 200 records I bought in the mid 70s to mid 80s. As I've re-engaged in the last few years I've picked up a few dozen new records. They can make some really good vinyl now, better than what I bought back in the day, but it's expensive.
* Engagement. To play a record, you aren't just conveniently scrolling an app on your phone or whatever with virtually the entire recorded history of music available. You SELECT a record to play, have to get up, pull it out, maybe clean it, put it on and actively participate. That just puts you in a different mindset to appreciate the music more.
* Tangibility. Physical media, large photos and notes are more fun to view.
* Sound quality - very debatable. Some have always insisted that analog is superior, but vinyl has limitations in signal to noise ratio and other areas. The claim that digital produces "square" waves is hogwash these days as they have long ago solved that problem. But a good vinyl pressing from a good source, played back on a high quality system, can be incredible. It takes more $ to do right than digital, though. I did a comparison a few months ago on this... a popular mid range turntable ($600 Pro-ject Carbon Debut EVO) vs a higher end (Technics SL-1200G with Soundsmith Aida cartridge) and the Debut just wasn't good enough. Big issues are speed stability and cartridge quality.
* Nostalgia - for me there is some of this as I have about 200 records I bought in the mid 70s to mid 80s. As I've re-engaged in the last few years I've picked up a few dozen new records. They can make some really good vinyl now, better than what I bought back in the day, but it's expensive.
This post was edited on 7/25/23 at 11:26 am
Posted on 7/25/23 at 11:01 am to pheroy
quote:
Here's my take on it. No downvote b/c this is very personal and subjective, no "right" answer except that it's all irrational lol.
Rule #1 on TD (with peace and love, I appreciated your take).. but don't ever ask for no downvotes
This post was edited on 7/25/23 at 11:05 am
Posted on 7/25/23 at 11:12 am to Midget Death Squad
quote:
8 track audio is better than vinyl, because it has the full sound spectrum captured in recording and production without the scratchiness that the needs creates when capturing the "cuts" on vinyl.
Did you mean reel to reel here, instead of 8 track? It's true that R2R is even better than vinyl. 8 track however, is inferior technically to either. Frequency limited, tiny piece of tape that just can't capture enough information - the format was designed for convenience, not high quality audio. I've read that some non-mass produced 8 tracks could be made to sound quite good but the combination of physical factors and production factors limit the typical sound quality for the vast majority that were made.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 11:14 am to Keep Stirring
quote:
Rule #1 on TD (with peace and love, I appreciated your take).. but don't ever ask for no downvotes
I didn't ask for no downvotes. Edited to clarify, I was replying to the original poster's comment about downvotes.
This post was edited on 7/25/23 at 11:27 am
Posted on 7/25/23 at 11:48 am to kingbob
quote:
Some people like physical media and prefer the crackle of vinyl over cds or tapes.
I have a cassette player and tapes sound worse than my vinyl.
You wouldnt even know I was playing vinyl. I cant tell until i go flip the record.
My answer is nostalgia, a hobby, there i sno fun in collecting digital, and i dig the artwork on albums too.
This post was edited on 7/25/23 at 11:50 am
Posted on 7/25/23 at 12:16 pm to Gaggle
i like the artwork and i think it sounds better but fully willing to admit that is just in my head.
as someone who used napster/kazaa ect to develop my taste in music, so it is nice to enjoy being forced to listen to an entire album the way the artist chose to arrange it.
as someone who used napster/kazaa ect to develop my taste in music, so it is nice to enjoy being forced to listen to an entire album the way the artist chose to arrange it.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 12:32 pm to themetalreb
cause..it's appreciation for the arts. It's the best packaged production, involving presentation with the album itself. I don't look at music as strictly audio, and an album sometimes represents a landmark in your life if you allow it.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 12:45 pm to pheroy
quote:
Did you mean reel to reel here, instead of 8 track?
Yes you are correct. R2R is the one.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 1:03 pm to pheroy
quote:
The claim that digital produces "square" waves is hogwash these days as they have long ago solved that problem.
This is not totally true. Voxels are a defined shape by their nature, so that will never be overcome. What tech development has done is compressed the size of the voxels to allow more in a vector (I may be misusing terms here; it's been a while since I studied this stuff.... but you get me intent) thus allowing a finer tuned wave. Even if there are 1 million voxels/vector now vs 1 thousand 10 years ago (arbitrary numbers to make my point), these millions still create a square pattern that will have data loss on the wave. It will be much less, but it's never absolute.
I agree that digital sound quality is vastly improved, but when you listen side by side you will notice the depth of sound on vinyl that isn't there on digital. Now this also is highly dependent on the album. Many if not most records produced in modern music are basic productions without much depth of sound. They are designed to trigger stimuli in mass audiences, which is why you will hear mostly highs and lows in them. People want loud and they want beats. Well produced musical arrangements, however, are where vinyl is superior to digital.
Go listen to Smashing Pumpkins' "Melon Collie..." record on digital and vinyl. I've always felt this is one of the most stark differences to illustrate the quality comparison. While I had a large number of albums on vinyl pre Katrina, this was never one. I only ever had it on CD and eventually digital streaming, and I have always felt it was awkwardly sounding and produced. Then I got it on vinyl a couple of years ago, and I have a newfound appreciation for it. There are sounds that I pick up on which I never noticed before, and the songs that I was not a big fan of strictly based off of their awkward production sounds I now enjoy.
I do not think vinyl is for everyone. The differences are really more nuanced, and most casual listeners won't notice enough difference to care. Right now it is very trendy, and I think many are buying it just to post instagram photos. Hey to each his own, but I personally buy them for the superior sound quality. I also am very selective to which ones I buy, because I only want records that truly benefit from being on vinyl
Posted on 7/25/23 at 2:03 pm to themetalreb
I like to support the artist that I enjoy the most by buying their albums. To me, it makes more sense to get a physical copy like a vinyl for that. I love the big artwork, inserts, and posters that are sometimes included.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 2:41 pm to Midget Death Squad
quote:
Midget Death Squad
Thanks for taking the time to further explain your take and the context - really appreciate it.
I haven't heard the term voxels before but looking it up, I can see that it would make sense as a way to completely represent a soundfield in a room, as opposed to the 2D waveform that is what you always see in audio discussions and reviews. Either way, it seems that the bottom line is "resolution", i.e. can you get the discrete digital steps representing the original waveform to be smooth enough at least for the best human ears. As I'm sure you're aware, sampling rate is at the heart of that on the capture side, but then the playback side matters in reconstructing the data. Each has improved. There is also DSD which is arguably more "analog like" since it measures the direction and degree of change in the waveform at a very high frequency so that it is more like the way a needle tracks the changes in direction of a physical groove.
Kind of getting to the bottom line in that respect, does an oscilloscope give an indication of whether the output of a digital device is "good enough" to eliminate the rough edges? If yes, then there have been plenty of experiments done and documented showing that a good digital system is completely capable of producing a complex audio signal without information loss. Audio signals are, relatively speaking, pretty easy and low frequency compared to other signals that are done in digital form. Video and computer transmissions, for obvious examples. If we can do video in the MHz without losing info, KHz is pretty trivial.
Now, do some recordings sound far better in their vinyl form vs digital? Sure. However, there are so many factors in how a specific format is produced that it can be extremely hard to say the format is the reason. Was that Smashing Pumpkins record processed for digital using the same source, master, etc.? Was it manipulated in some way to produce a poorer result? Many older records were recorded in what could be seen as a technologically more primitive way but I think we would both agree that usually sounds better than something that's gone through Pro Tools, compression etc. for a "sound". I totally agree that I have recordings that sound flat with little depth, but I have heard that on modern vinyl too. (Just for reference, I have Martin Logan Summit X speakers that will give you pretty much any soundstage depth / imaging a record has to offer.) One example is Shade Empire's "Omega Arcane"; I can hear the same "graininess" and flatness in the sound and especially the orchestral parts on digital and the LP.
So to sum up the ramble... and obviously we could and people have, gone on for ages on this... I think LPs can sound absolutely amazing if everything is done right in the chain, and played back on a good system. But digital done right is sonically more capable and has less weak links in the chain.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 2:43 pm to themetalreb
For me it is CDs. I have yet to find a device or streaming service that can sound as good as a cd player.
Test for me is Led Zepplin, Since I’ve Been Loving You. If you can’t hear the bass drum pedal squeak, it sucks.
Test for me is Led Zepplin, Since I’ve Been Loving You. If you can’t hear the bass drum pedal squeak, it sucks.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 3:57 pm to themetalreb
It is the difference between incandescent and LED.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 5:17 pm to themetalreb
I’m too young for it to be nostalgia for me. Started collecting in like 2001.
I really think there’s room for all of it. If I’m running around doing stuff, then I’m streaming music. If I really want to sit down and LISTEN to an entire album then I’m putting on a record and holding the physical sleeve and art in my hands.
Someone mentioned CDs and tapes. Well, they’re making a comeback and that I consider to be based purely on nostalgia.
I really think there’s room for all of it. If I’m running around doing stuff, then I’m streaming music. If I really want to sit down and LISTEN to an entire album then I’m putting on a record and holding the physical sleeve and art in my hands.
Someone mentioned CDs and tapes. Well, they’re making a comeback and that I consider to be based purely on nostalgia.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 7:07 pm to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
Test for me is Led Zepplin, Since I’ve Been Loving You. If you can’t hear the bass drum pedal squeak, it sucks.
This. Folks can talk about analog and all that crap all day long but you’ll hear things on a CD you wouldn’t hear on a vinyl record.
Vinyl folks are like the oldsters that still wanna lug around their 300lb Ampeg amp because tubes are just far superior all the while their sound is like a big heavy pile of mush. But it’s so good man. Amps is the area where I will agree with you that analog is the best.
Posted on 7/26/23 at 1:24 am to themetalreb
I dunno.
Posted on 7/26/23 at 6:03 am to themetalreb
I still buy a lot of albums as well as CDs. I love holding an album, reading the cover, the lyric sheet while listening. I prefer owning something "tameable".
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