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re: Media day starts at 8:45
Posted on 10/1/24 at 2:41 pm to ThePistol
Posted on 10/1/24 at 2:41 pm to ThePistol
quote:
I'm not saying that Brandon and Trey aren't capable of starting together on any team but on a team that wants to start DM, Herb, and Zion it is not possible to start both long term
That's a Pels' money issue you're describing. Pels closed the talent gap but they're not deep even with perfect health. Say TM3 is on the bench, if any of Pels (2-5) are out, TM3 plugs in at a high level. We've seen this. If he plays at a high level while playing those positions, then he can start anytime at those positions.
2
Posted on 10/1/24 at 3:11 pm to Pistol44
quote:
That's a Pels' money issue you're describing.
I'm saying that Trey and BI can't both start on this roster long term with Zion, DM, and Herb so therefore it makes no sense to sign them both at their expected salaries. Yes, in fantasy world where there is no salary cap or aprons you can pay both Trey and BI 30+million. However, on a team with DM and Zion both making big money to pay both would be foolish. People are already complaining about bringing CJ off the bench with his 30+million dollar contract for year 13 and 14 of his career. You are advocating bringing 30+million Trey off the bench through the peak of his career so we can pay ill fitting BI 40+million? I will never understand your logic here.
Posted on 10/1/24 at 4:14 pm to Pistol44
From Day 1 practice.
Posted on 10/1/24 at 5:27 pm to shel311
quote:
Murphy cannot start at the 5
Sure he could, you are not on the same page as Coach WG. A Mavs lineup with Lively at the post, TM3 wouldn't defend him? Or are you putting Zion on him? Herb, BI, and TM3 all have 7'0+ wingspans. If you play Jokic or Embid, Zion outweighs them. Point being, Pels doubling down on small ball. In order to play this way you have to remove some training wheels.
This post was edited on 10/1/24 at 5:58 pm
Posted on 10/1/24 at 5:41 pm to ThePistol
quote:
However, on a team with DM and Zion both making big money to pay both would be foolish.
When DJ and Zion come up for new contracts max players will be making ~80M and a cap near ~290M. It's a Pels money thing.
Posted on 10/1/24 at 6:13 pm to Pistol44
quote:We're getting destroyed in either of those scenarios on a solid sample size.
Sure he could, you are not on the same page as Coach WG. A Mavs lineup with Lively at the post, TM3 wouldn't defend him? Or are you putting Zion on him? Herb, BI, and TM3 all have 7'0+ wingspans. If you play Jokic or Embid, Zion outweighs them. Point being, Pels doubling down on small ball. In order to play this way you have to remove some training wheels
Also, the wear and tear for Zion playing center guarding Jokic and those dudes is... not good.
Posted on 10/1/24 at 6:24 pm to shel311
quote:
We're getting destroyed in either of those scenarios on a solid sample size..
Don’t entirely disagree, I’d say disadvantaged not destroyed, but why then is Zion playing at 285?
Posted on 10/1/24 at 7:28 pm to Pistol44
In a small-ball lineup, Herb, Trey, BI, and Zion all get reps at defending the opposing center. And we switch everything, so Murray ends up on the opposing 5 a lot too. The key is to deny the ball, and then quickly double if the opponent actually gets the ball to the opposing big in the post.
When we were small last season, Herb and BI seemed to get the most reps guarding the post.
When we were small last season, Herb and BI seemed to get the most reps guarding the post.
Posted on 10/1/24 at 8:06 pm to GOP_Tiger
That’s how I saw it. We’ll see how it works out.
Posted on 10/1/24 at 8:53 pm to chRxis
quote:
tried telling all y'all "let's keep BI" folk... keeping him will/would cause tons of problems in the locker room, win or lose...
I don't know why you think I'm a "lets keep BI" person, I've been saying he needs to be moved for two years now.
Posted on 10/1/24 at 9:10 pm to Pistol44
quote:
Don’t entirely disagree, I’d say disadvantaged not destroyed, but why then is Zion playing at 285?
Hit the nail on the head.
He’s literally the heaviest player in the nba, yet most of you think it’s impossible for him to play the 5 for 12 or so minutes a game.
Why do we have to protect him defensively? Get your fatass in shape and play both sides of the court. There are plenty of current and former all stars that give effort on both ends of the court.
Posted on 10/1/24 at 9:13 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:If he's starting at the 5, he's likely finishing at the 5
yet most of you think it’s impossible for him to play the 5 for 12 or so minutes a game.
If he's starting and finishing at the 5, he's playing a heck of a lot of more than 22 minutes a night at that position.
And we've seen his body break down twice a now likely from wear and tear and carrying a team when he's not playing center, and center would rather obviously be a bigger physical toll on him.
quote:He's been available for the playoffs exactly 0 times the part 3 seasons.
Why do we have to protect him defensively?
quote:You provide examples then let's compare injury histories...
There are plenty of current and former all stars that give effort on both ends of the court.
Posted on 10/1/24 at 10:03 pm to shel311
I’m sorry for expecting a mvp level basketball player to be able to play fricking basketball.
All you wrote were excuses. That’s why the Pels and Zion will fail. Quit making excuses. If he can’t play offense AND DEFENSE, we aren’t winning shite. He’s a special player that can change how the game is played against us b/c of his unique abilities and size, but if we don’t actually use those abilities and size to their peak potential, then this is all a waste of time.
All you wrote were excuses. That’s why the Pels and Zion will fail. Quit making excuses. If he can’t play offense AND DEFENSE, we aren’t winning shite. He’s a special player that can change how the game is played against us b/c of his unique abilities and size, but if we don’t actually use those abilities and size to their peak potential, then this is all a waste of time.
Posted on 10/1/24 at 10:41 pm to TeddyPadillac
How about because he is 6’6” without overly long arms? Why would we want to put our best player at a defensive disadvantage every single night? So we can keep Brandon Ingram, who doesn’t fit well with Zion, on the roster? That’s ludicrous.
Zions best attributes as a defender are as a secondary defender playing passing lanes and coming over to block shots. He also has the lateral quickness to stay in front of guards on switches. His worst attributes are he is only 6’6” tall and an average at best rebounder. Why do we want him to be the primary defender on 5’s?
Zions best attributes as a defender are as a secondary defender playing passing lanes and coming over to block shots. He also has the lateral quickness to stay in front of guards on switches. His worst attributes are he is only 6’6” tall and an average at best rebounder. Why do we want him to be the primary defender on 5’s?
Posted on 10/2/24 at 7:21 am to ThePistol
quote:
How about because he is 6’6” without overly long arms?
He’s the heaviest player in the nba. Use your weight and quickness to keep them away from the basket. No one is backing him down.
Draymond is 6’6” 230.
Looney is 6’9” 225.
Lebron won titles with 6’8” 235lb Haslem and 6’9” 250lb Tristan Thompson.
The Celtics just won a title with 6’9” 250lb Horford who has a 6” vertical.
Hey I know, let’s bring in 6’10 215lb Nic Claxton to guard 280lb Jokic.
If height made a big difference, then Trey could play the 5, but he can’t, b/c your height does you no good if you get backed up all the way under the goal. Height works for skinny guys like Wemby, Porzingis and Chet b/c they have ridiculous height and wingspan.
Weight is a lot more important defensively when guarding Jokic and Embiid. Height is more important for defending almost everyone else outside of maybe JV and Nurkic.
quote:
Why would we want to put our best player at a defensive disadvantage every single night?
Why would we want to put the opposing team at a disadvantage defensively?
quote:
So we can keep Brandon Ingram, who doesn’t fit well with Zion, on the roster? That’s ludicrous.
Uh…..no. Has nothing to do with it.
quote:
Zions best attributes as a defender are as a secondary defender playing passing lanes and coming over to block shots. He also has the lateral quickness to stay in front of guards on switches. His worst attributes are he is only 6’6” tall and an average at best rebounder.
I 100% agree.
quote:
Why do we want him to be the primary defender on 5’s?
B/c he has the size to do it, and it should create a huge mismatch on our offensive side of the ball. Outside of Jokic, Embiid, maybe Zubac and Nurkic, there are no 5s with size that will offset our offense with their own offense, and they should get played off the court.
I’m not saying Zion should be the full time 5. We still need a big on this team, and Theis isn’t that guy. We need someone to bang with bigger starting 5’s for 20ish minutes a night. Zion can handle the other 5-10 minutes the opposing starting center plays, and should have 10 more minutes against backup 5’s that shouldn’t be a threat offensively to us, or have the size to wear Zion down. Certain matchups Zion should be able to play the 5 for 30 minutes, others maybe just 10 minutes or even less. For instance I don’t want him playing the 5 against Zubac and backup Plumlee. That’s a zero minute game. We play the warriors and it should be a 100% at the 5 game.
When Zion gets to attack the basket without a true big shot blocker on the opposing team, he’s almost unstoppable. That’s what I’m trying to create with him at the 5. If the other team wants to stay big, then Zion should be feeding wide open 3’s to everyone b/c that big isn’t leaving the paint. When the big goes out, Zion gets to the rim with no opposition.
Posted on 10/2/24 at 7:36 am to CP3forMVP
quote:
I don't know why you think I'm a "lets keep BI" person
I don't... i was making a general statement... sorry you felt a certain way about it
i more than likely just responded to the last message I read in the thread, vs. going back to the OP to respond
This post was edited on 10/2/24 at 7:38 am
Posted on 10/2/24 at 7:53 am to chRxis
BI shows up in shape every season.....
Posted on 10/2/24 at 7:54 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Outside of Jokic, Embiid, maybe Zubac and Nurkic, there are no 5s with size that will offset our offense with their own offense, and they should get played off the court.
I would add Sengun and especially Wemby to that list. Unfortunately, they are both in our division so we play them 4x a season. Anthony Davis isn't a great matchup for Zion either because he can move and is 5 inches taller. That is 6 teams in our conference that it isn't a great fit for the whole game. Sure, in spurts, I think Zion can absolutely do it and be very successful against anyone. My problem is we have no good option to throw at the bigger centers. Zion should not be the primary option if we want to succeed against those teams. That is a team building issue that has to be addressed.
Posted on 10/2/24 at 7:56 am to ThePistol
quote:
Zions best attributes as a defender are as a secondary defender playing passing lanes and coming over to block shots. He also has the lateral quickness to stay in front of guards on switches. His worst attributes are he is only 6’6” tall and an average at best rebounder.
Super Tyreke
Posted on 10/2/24 at 8:14 am to ThePistol
Zion shoudl be able to handle Sengun, and Sengun is one of the worst defensive 5's in the league. I'm fine with Sengun scoring 20 on Zion. Zion shoudl score 30 on him and foul him out.
Wemby can be guarded by Trey or BI. He's barely even a 5 offensively, and more of a perimeter player than inside player. I don't think he could get within 10' of the goal if Zion was giving effort defensively. The problem with Wemby, and Chet, is they will give Zion problems at the rim as defenders. It's crazy to me that a guy like Gobert will get eaten alive by Zion, and Zion will attack him at the rim, but guys that are skinny and long like Wemby, Chet, Kessler will give Zion all kinds of fits. But if those guys are going to hang out around the rim, then ZIon should be able to penetrate and find open 3's.
And yes Anthony Davis is a problem for anyone to guard. He's long, he's a lot stronger than he used to be, and he's still agile. he's still a bitch though. AD should be an MVP candidate every year, but he's a bitch. It's easy to get him out of his game and force him into mid range shots.
That it is.
I think some of you are thinking I want Zion to play the 5 full time. That's not what I want.
Like I said, we need a big body 5 to play against certain matchups, and maybe he plays 25 minutes in those games, and other matchups that big body 5 plays 10-12 minutes. It's no different than Jose. Some games Jose plays 25-30 minutes. Other games he plays 12. It's all matchup dependent.
I want to see a lineup of Murray/Herb/BI/Trey/Zion. Yes we all know BI needs to take more 3's, but when he takes open 3's, he hits them at a high rate, and a lineup like that has 5 guys that can be run off the 3 point line and finish at the rim. I just think that's a lineup that should be extremely difficult to defend against, and if Zion can man up defensively and the other 4 really long guys can play good team defense and gang rebound, then they shoudl be able to kick a lot of teams arse with that small ball lineup. If BI and Zion play good perimeter defense (effort is all that is needed from them b/c they are both skilled enough to be good) in that lineup, defending the rim gets very easy with those 5 quick long armed guys. Trey and BI showed a lot last year as secodary defenders challenging shots at the rim. I know Zion can be elite at that as well. WHen you play good perimeter defense and don't give straight paths to the rim, then having Trey, BI, Zion and even Herb challenge shots in the paint will be suffice.
Wemby can be guarded by Trey or BI. He's barely even a 5 offensively, and more of a perimeter player than inside player. I don't think he could get within 10' of the goal if Zion was giving effort defensively. The problem with Wemby, and Chet, is they will give Zion problems at the rim as defenders. It's crazy to me that a guy like Gobert will get eaten alive by Zion, and Zion will attack him at the rim, but guys that are skinny and long like Wemby, Chet, Kessler will give Zion all kinds of fits. But if those guys are going to hang out around the rim, then ZIon should be able to penetrate and find open 3's.
And yes Anthony Davis is a problem for anyone to guard. He's long, he's a lot stronger than he used to be, and he's still agile. he's still a bitch though. AD should be an MVP candidate every year, but he's a bitch. It's easy to get him out of his game and force him into mid range shots.
quote:
My problem is we have no good option to throw at the bigger centers.
That it is.
I think some of you are thinking I want Zion to play the 5 full time. That's not what I want.
Like I said, we need a big body 5 to play against certain matchups, and maybe he plays 25 minutes in those games, and other matchups that big body 5 plays 10-12 minutes. It's no different than Jose. Some games Jose plays 25-30 minutes. Other games he plays 12. It's all matchup dependent.
I want to see a lineup of Murray/Herb/BI/Trey/Zion. Yes we all know BI needs to take more 3's, but when he takes open 3's, he hits them at a high rate, and a lineup like that has 5 guys that can be run off the 3 point line and finish at the rim. I just think that's a lineup that should be extremely difficult to defend against, and if Zion can man up defensively and the other 4 really long guys can play good team defense and gang rebound, then they shoudl be able to kick a lot of teams arse with that small ball lineup. If BI and Zion play good perimeter defense (effort is all that is needed from them b/c they are both skilled enough to be good) in that lineup, defending the rim gets very easy with those 5 quick long armed guys. Trey and BI showed a lot last year as secodary defenders challenging shots at the rim. I know Zion can be elite at that as well. WHen you play good perimeter defense and don't give straight paths to the rim, then having Trey, BI, Zion and even Herb challenge shots in the paint will be suffice.
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