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Started By
Message
Offense should run through Zion
Posted on 12/3/22 at 12:07 am
Posted on 12/3/22 at 12:07 am
BI and CJ should feed off of the spacing created by Zion. Also, CJ needs to defer more to these guys.
6
Posted on 12/3/22 at 12:18 am to Dayshaun
Duh
Posted on 12/3/22 at 8:13 am to armsdealer
You say duh, but the reality is when both BI and CJ are out there, Zion has struggled to get 15-18 shots - which is what he should be getting EVERY game. And his touches are limited as well.
Posted on 12/3/22 at 8:34 am to smokymountainrain
When CJ kept pounding the air out of the ball with Zion not getting a touch I was getting rustled.
Posted on 12/3/22 at 8:35 am to Dayshaun
It should, and if someone is upset about that then they need to get in line. Zion is this teams best source of offense, by far I may even say. And will only get better with BI on the wing.
Posted on 12/3/22 at 8:35 am to Dayshaun
Zion should be the 1st option I agree, but when BI has it going he’s almost just as unstoppable as Z. CJ will pay dividends come playoff time
Posted on 12/3/22 at 8:36 am to Dayshaun
quote:It's actually BI.
Also, CJ needs to defer more to these guys.
When all 3 are on the court together, BI has a higher usage rate than Zion, 26% to 25%. CJ's usage rate is pretty low at 19%.
Posted on 12/3/22 at 8:39 am to shel311
I think the main thing is their injuries and games missed keep making it tough for them to find a rhythm with the 3 playing together.
They've only finished 8 games together this season. The other 14 games, at least 1 of them have been missing.
They just need a sustained run together and I'm confident they'll figure it out. And by figure it out, I mean everyone realizes this shite runs through Zion going forward. BI 2nd,CJ more off ball and more aggressive on nights he's feeling it .
They've only finished 8 games together this season. The other 14 games, at least 1 of them have been missing.
They just need a sustained run together and I'm confident they'll figure it out. And by figure it out, I mean everyone realizes this shite runs through Zion going forward. BI 2nd,CJ more off ball and more aggressive on nights he's feeling it .
Posted on 12/3/22 at 9:17 am to shel311
Zion had over 20 potential assists last night (passes leading to shots at the basket). And most of those were passes from the backcourt
I think it’s clear that regardless of who brings the ball up we need to start most of our sets with zion initiating the half court offense when he’s on the floor. There are plenty of minutes available for Ingram/CJ/Jose/etc to get theirs when zion sits
I think it’s clear that regardless of who brings the ball up we need to start most of our sets with zion initiating the half court offense when he’s on the floor. There are plenty of minutes available for Ingram/CJ/Jose/etc to get theirs when zion sits
Posted on 12/3/22 at 9:40 am to cgrand
quote:23 to b exact. Just absurd
Zion had over 20 potential assists last night
And CJ had 10, which is very good. The game thread had a hilarious melt on him last night and he finishes with 10 potential assists.
Posted on 12/3/22 at 9:47 am to shel311
quote:
And CJ had 10, which is very good. The game thread had a hilarious melt on him last night and he finishes with 10 potential assists.
There were several plays when Zion was RED frickING HOT where CJ didn't even look to Zions side of the court while he was trying to dribble the air out of the ball. I don't mind the ball in CJ's hands but if he thinks he is better off playing ISO ball vs a two man game with Zion he is a moron. I LIKE CJ, he just has to utilize the gravity of Zion. It's frustrating, especially on a couple plays where the defense sagged off Zion, it was like the KNEW CJ wasn't going to pass the ball...
Posted on 12/3/22 at 9:51 am to Dayshaun
I agree
Frankly, I think what needs to happen is BI needs to stay in his current role which is basically secondary facilitator and CJ needs to go back into his more natural role of off ball sharpshooter and occasional end of the clock iso shooter.
I think that satisfies both what makes this offense run best, and also BI not getting disgruntled ala SVG who was just putting him in the corner or at the arc and shooting threes.
That to me is the hierarchy going forward…or should be
Frankly, I think what needs to happen is BI needs to stay in his current role which is basically secondary facilitator and CJ needs to go back into his more natural role of off ball sharpshooter and occasional end of the clock iso shooter.
I think that satisfies both what makes this offense run best, and also BI not getting disgruntled ala SVG who was just putting him in the corner or at the arc and shooting threes.
That to me is the hierarchy going forward…or should be
Posted on 12/3/22 at 9:57 am to armsdealer
quote:
There were several plays when Zion was RED frickING HOT where CJ didn't even look to Zions side of the court while he was trying to dribble the air out of the ball. I don't mind the ball in CJ's hands but if he thinks he is better off playing ISO ball vs a two man game with Zion he is a moron. I LIKE CJ, he just has to utilize the gravity of Zion. It's frustrating, especially on a couple plays where the defense sagged off Zion, it was like the KNEW CJ wasn't going to pass the ball...
CJ is playing the PG role with mentality of a SG and that + his struggles from shooting I think is why the offense often looks disjointed when he’s running it.
Good SG’s can often flirt with 10 assists(see Tyreke Evans as an example), but they are fundamentally not doing that thing that Mike Conley describes as the internal ledger, that thing great facilitators do where they are constantly weighing and balancing the needs of their teammates. “Hey, this guy likes the ball here and hasn’t gotten going, let’s get him an easy look from three. Or hey “this guy is hot, let me step back and let him cook.”
CJ still seems to have that look-to-score first mentality and pass it off if need be that gets you assists, but often times isn’t balancing the team needs ideally.
Not calling him Tyreke tbc, just that his facilitation often feels out of touch with where the team and other players are at and I think that leads to some of the issues with guys like Zion being red hot and then him just ignoring him for possessions.
This post was edited on 12/3/22 at 9:59 am
Posted on 12/3/22 at 10:24 am to armsdealer
quote:I don't disagree and it's ok to call that out.
There were several plays when Zion was RED frickING HOT where CJ didn't even look to Zions side of the court
But then look at what posters said based on that, it was a shite show.
But he finished strong. And on the season, he's had a really low usage rate playing alongside BI and Zion, showing he absolutely is deferring to BI and Zion.
This post was edited on 12/3/22 at 10:25 am
Posted on 12/3/22 at 10:25 am to armsdealer
quote:
There were several plays when Zion was RED frickING HOT where CJ didn't even look to Zions side of the court while he was trying to dribble the air out of the ball. I don't mind the ball in CJ's hands but if he thinks he is better off playing ISO ball vs a two man game with Zion he is a moron. I LIKE CJ, he just has to utilize the gravity of Zion. It's frustrating, especially on a couple plays where the defense sagged off Zion, it was like the KNEW CJ wasn't going to pass the ball...
Well said, CJ is much better off ball. Zion and Jose are the best facilitators. BI and Dyson in the second tier.
Posted on 12/3/22 at 10:37 am to Bronc
CJ is a great facilitator but Antonio pointed out a very important conversation about CJ being who he is. He pulled him over to the sideline to let him know that in the middle of his struggles.
Could CJ have given you 10 assists last night with 5 fgas? Maybe, but with the way everyone else was missing save zion, he and all of us should know the main reason he was brought here was to be a shot creator and knock down 3pt shooter. So no, I don't mind him working out the kinks after being out for a week with what sounds like a pretty bad flu.
The pels as a title contender will have him as the 3rd option and main scorer on the 2nd units. With BI out he has to take an increased role scoring, especially with the team struggling like they did last night, sans Zion
Could CJ have given you 10 assists last night with 5 fgas? Maybe, but with the way everyone else was missing save zion, he and all of us should know the main reason he was brought here was to be a shot creator and knock down 3pt shooter. So no, I don't mind him working out the kinks after being out for a week with what sounds like a pretty bad flu.
The pels as a title contender will have him as the 3rd option and main scorer on the 2nd units. With BI out he has to take an increased role scoring, especially with the team struggling like they did last night, sans Zion
Posted on 12/3/22 at 10:48 am to whatiknowsofar
It's not going to happen over night. He's aware and is often trying to find balance and feel. And he does back off when needed. But You can't neuter his game because you need his abilities to win the chip. You need them to figure it out and learn how play complimentary basketball while letting them play their game to their strengths and abilities.
We're a quarter of a season in and we're barely seen all 3 on the court together. This is a process and will correct itself as they get more time together.
We're a quarter of a season in and we're barely seen all 3 on the court together. This is a process and will correct itself as they get more time together.
This post was edited on 12/3/22 at 10:49 am
Posted on 12/3/22 at 10:48 am to shel311
quote:
It's actually BI. When all 3 are on the court together, BI has a higher usage rate than Zion, 26% to 25%. CJ's usage rate is pretty low at 19%.
Yep. BI will get his shots, no matter what. I think that disrupts the flow much more than CJ clanking 3’s. If CJ can get his shot back he’s actually a perfect fit with Zion. Ingram, not so much.
When Zion was at Duke, they didn’t run the offense through him. He just ran around and made plays on both side of the court. Everything flowed through RJ. That might have to be the route the team goes when fully healthy. Between BI, Zion, CJ and Val, there just isn’t enough opportunity for everyone to get the volume they need to play their game.
Posted on 12/3/22 at 10:53 am to Dayshaun
Point Zion is definitely best for this team. Guys are just so open when he has the ball and he gets officiated like
a guard.
a guard.
Posted on 12/3/22 at 11:08 am to tibebecolston
Zion since B.I. went down(3 games)
28.7 ppg
11 rebs
7 assist
84.6% ft
68.1% fg
2.3 stls
2 blks
10.7/15.7 fg pg
+/- +22 avg
28.7 ppg
11 rebs
7 assist
84.6% ft
68.1% fg
2.3 stls
2 blks
10.7/15.7 fg pg
+/- +22 avg
This post was edited on 12/3/22 at 11:09 am
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