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Posted on 4/24/19 at 4:01 pm to J_Hingle
quote:
It's not that AD isn't good. To put up 25 & 10 on any given night is great. The problem is if you don't primarily handle the ball, create for others, and take over games you just aren't special. His game is too dependent on another player creating or play calling. He could be special if he stepped it up on defense and changed his personality to where he took over games but it just isn't him.
While true, AD also has a superstar impact on the defensive end as well, while someone like Harden is a total liability
Posted on 4/24/19 at 4:02 pm to Crewz
KD, Curry
Iggy, Green
Klay, Cousins
Some of that.
Iggy, Green
Klay, Cousins
Some of that.
Posted on 4/24/19 at 4:02 pm to jmcwhrter
man i just have to disagree with that. Ive witnessed too many plays taken off and lack of hustle to say that. He has the ability to do so but i just dont see it
Posted on 4/24/19 at 4:04 pm to Crewz
I think in terms of talent AD and Jrue are up at the top. But neither AD or Jrue want to be a true leader of a team. All the other duos have one or two guys that want the ball in their hands at the end of the game. AD and Jrue haven't necessarily shown that on a regular basis. Look what happened when Rondo and to a lesser degree Boogie was on this team. Jrue and AD let Rondo be the leader and they flourished.
But back to the question, if it were a draft I'd take the talent and go get me a Rondo.
I'd go Dame/CJ then AD/Jrue
But back to the question, if it were a draft I'd take the talent and go get me a Rondo.
I'd go Dame/CJ then AD/Jrue
Posted on 4/24/19 at 4:04 pm to Fun Bunch
I think AD is like almost every star. Dependent on what is around him. Giannis with last years roster was very good. They added shooters and he become the best player in the league
None of you had doubts about AD 10 months ago, after we watched him average 30 and 13 in the playoffs. He had a point guard. He had one to start the season, when the team was 4-0.
Yes, Harden can be an offense all by himself, but who else can? I don't think its a black mark to say AD needs an average to above average point guard to help turn his numbers into wins.
I just think some people on the search for this perfect player and I promise, you won't get that guy in the AD trade. If you are disappointed by AD's ON COURT performance, you are gonna be really disappointed with the guys who come next
None of you had doubts about AD 10 months ago, after we watched him average 30 and 13 in the playoffs. He had a point guard. He had one to start the season, when the team was 4-0.
Yes, Harden can be an offense all by himself, but who else can? I don't think its a black mark to say AD needs an average to above average point guard to help turn his numbers into wins.
I just think some people on the search for this perfect player and I promise, you won't get that guy in the AD trade. If you are disappointed by AD's ON COURT performance, you are gonna be really disappointed with the guys who come next
Posted on 4/24/19 at 4:06 pm to Crewz
Since we are starting from now:
Can I have Morant and Zion.
Luka and porzingas?
Can I have Morant and Zion.
Luka and porzingas?
Posted on 4/24/19 at 4:11 pm to CelticDog
Over the next 10 years, sure.
Over the next 3 years, Ja and Zion would probably be a net neutral in wins created. And I would have Luka and Porzingas below all 6 of these duos, but above Booker and Ayton
Over the next 3 years, Ja and Zion would probably be a net neutral in wins created. And I would have Luka and Porzingas below all 6 of these duos, but above Booker and Ayton
Posted on 4/24/19 at 4:14 pm to Crewz
Giannis game isn't dependent on what is around him though. Those players compliment his game but he isn't dependent on them. No matter what that guy is possessing the ball every play and hustles from one end to the other. He creates. AD simply doesn't. I have been saying this for a few years now ever since this whole insane campaign about AD being a top 3-5 player in the league started. I actually enjoyed watching the team once AD was out and Jrue was running with scrubs. I thought they actually played team basketball and the team noticeably increased their hustle.
Posted on 4/24/19 at 4:15 pm to Crewz
Did you keep any Steph/Klay or Draymond combo out because it would be too obvious?
Posted on 4/24/19 at 4:19 pm to SLafourche07
My point in this thread is to remove Golden State and show that top talent wise, the Pels are as good if not better than every other team in the West. So they aren't THAT far off if AD says he is all in.
And its not like these duos have AMAZING supporting casts that Griffin has no chance of assembling over the next 15 months.
People seem to think it would be impossible to build a contender with AD on his next salary. But its because they see the bar they have to clear as the Warriors current team. But if you remove them, how far away are the Pels really? And I think KD is gone this summer and Draymond will be the year after, if not earlier. So, I don't think people have to try to create a team in their mind that can jump that bar.
And its not like these duos have AMAZING supporting casts that Griffin has no chance of assembling over the next 15 months.
People seem to think it would be impossible to build a contender with AD on his next salary. But its because they see the bar they have to clear as the Warriors current team. But if you remove them, how far away are the Pels really? And I think KD is gone this summer and Draymond will be the year after, if not earlier. So, I don't think people have to try to create a team in their mind that can jump that bar.
Posted on 4/24/19 at 4:28 pm to Crewz
quote:
I think AD is like almost every star. Dependent on what is around him.
Virtually every person on Earth is dependent on people around them to some degree. Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Vladimir Putin, everyone.
Some are less than others.
The same goes for players in the league. Players that can score on their own, create for themselves and others, work off the dribble...they are less dependent and therefore effect the game more, as it is played now, than those that can't.
And AD can't. He is more dependent on the talent around him than Giannis or Durant or Harden or Curry etc etc.
The problem is that we got a Hakeem level talent in a world where Hakeems are virtually irrelevent.
Posted on 4/24/19 at 4:37 pm to Crewz
Based on 3 years?
1. AD/Jrue
They're arguably two of the best two way players in the league. Both still in their prime, both have a near complete arsenal offensively, and both are top defenders. The difference between them and the list? We trot out Darius miller's, Ian Clark's, and Solomon hills. They trot out actual nba talent, maybe not the best but guys who should be in the league.
2. Jokic/Murray
While Jokic is already a top 3 two-way big, Murray continues to grow into a playmaker. He continues to grow as an offensive player who makes good decisions, but he's average defensively.
3. PG/Russ
I feel like I put them too high, but being honest they're a top duo. Russ is the double edge blade and PG seems to be unclutch the last 2 years. Both are still in their prime, PG continued to grow while russ began to improve as a defender. Effort is the concern. Both are still top 15 players at the very least, they need to find specialized role players though. They got killed defensively as a whole.
4. Harden/CP3
Harden is probably the best or 2nd best on this list easily, but cp3 worries me with age and injury. We're talking 3 years and he's clearly declining. Harden can't carry the load forever.
5. Dame/McCollum
They were 1 year from being SWEPT, but their team is talented overall. These two are not getting better. Not shooting. Not scoring. Not passing. Not defending. Their team added talent, they themselves didn't improve. This is who they are, and the pair of them aren't the best among this list.
6. Mitch/Gobert
Mitchell didn't improve as much as I thought he would, but we're talking 3 years and he's gonna get better and be a 25+ppg, 6apg guard... A better Brandon Roy who's average defensively. Gobert is a 1 way, lock down big who can prevent you from winning inside... He can't beat you on the other end. Too many deficiencies who needs too many role players around to succeed.
1. AD/Jrue
They're arguably two of the best two way players in the league. Both still in their prime, both have a near complete arsenal offensively, and both are top defenders. The difference between them and the list? We trot out Darius miller's, Ian Clark's, and Solomon hills. They trot out actual nba talent, maybe not the best but guys who should be in the league.
2. Jokic/Murray
While Jokic is already a top 3 two-way big, Murray continues to grow into a playmaker. He continues to grow as an offensive player who makes good decisions, but he's average defensively.
3. PG/Russ
I feel like I put them too high, but being honest they're a top duo. Russ is the double edge blade and PG seems to be unclutch the last 2 years. Both are still in their prime, PG continued to grow while russ began to improve as a defender. Effort is the concern. Both are still top 15 players at the very least, they need to find specialized role players though. They got killed defensively as a whole.
4. Harden/CP3
Harden is probably the best or 2nd best on this list easily, but cp3 worries me with age and injury. We're talking 3 years and he's clearly declining. Harden can't carry the load forever.
5. Dame/McCollum
They were 1 year from being SWEPT, but their team is talented overall. These two are not getting better. Not shooting. Not scoring. Not passing. Not defending. Their team added talent, they themselves didn't improve. This is who they are, and the pair of them aren't the best among this list.
6. Mitch/Gobert
Mitchell didn't improve as much as I thought he would, but we're talking 3 years and he's gonna get better and be a 25+ppg, 6apg guard... A better Brandon Roy who's average defensively. Gobert is a 1 way, lock down big who can prevent you from winning inside... He can't beat you on the other end. Too many deficiencies who needs too many role players around to succeed.
This post was edited on 4/24/19 at 4:39 pm
Posted on 4/24/19 at 4:42 pm to Crewz
I think Lillard and Jrue would be one of the nastiest PG/SG combos in history but a man can dream.
Posted on 4/24/19 at 4:46 pm to Fun Bunch
I still think this is recency bias talking.
Ten months ago, AD was good enough to win if you have the supporting talent but Dame and CJ will never work and one of them has to be traded.
Take Golden State and this years Milwaukee out of the league and the difference between the top and where the Pels were as the 16th best team is less than a half a point per quarter when all this chaos went down.
I used to talk to people about this with Tiger. When he was the greatest player of all time, his scoring average was around 68. When he was "done" and washed up, it was around 70.
Thats one putt per 9 that goes in as opposed to out. Thats the difference between the greatest ever and a guy who wasn't ranked in the top 200 at the time.
The difference between an amazing team in the NBA and one which fans scream to blow up. That can't win, etc etc is one extra basket made or stopped per game.
Ten months ago, AD was good enough to win if you have the supporting talent but Dame and CJ will never work and one of them has to be traded.
Take Golden State and this years Milwaukee out of the league and the difference between the top and where the Pels were as the 16th best team is less than a half a point per quarter when all this chaos went down.
I used to talk to people about this with Tiger. When he was the greatest player of all time, his scoring average was around 68. When he was "done" and washed up, it was around 70.
Thats one putt per 9 that goes in as opposed to out. Thats the difference between the greatest ever and a guy who wasn't ranked in the top 200 at the time.
The difference between an amazing team in the NBA and one which fans scream to blow up. That can't win, etc etc is one extra basket made or stopped per game.
This post was edited on 4/24/19 at 4:46 pm
Posted on 4/24/19 at 4:53 pm to Crewz
quote:
I still think this is recency bias talking.
One could say recency bias, or one could say obtaining more information.
The more we see AD, the more we realize he will never win a thing without an elite alpha dog next to him.
Posted on 4/24/19 at 4:56 pm to Crewz
quote:
I still think this is recency bias talking
You would’ve had the blazer duo #1 ten months ago?
I’d go
AD/jrue
Jokic/Murray
Dame/CJ
Harden
Mitchell/gobert
Russ/PG
Posted on 4/24/19 at 5:01 pm to Crewz
The answer to this qeustion is AD/Jrue. Both at the beginning of prime years, both are two way stars. If we are talking one playoff run you go Harden/Paul 100 percent. Paul could start to go down real fast any day now. I have another question for you... Would you trade Jrue and his contract straight up for Westbrook and his contract. The answer is no. Crazy how things turn very quick.
Posted on 4/24/19 at 5:03 pm to Fun Bunch
Here’s what irks me
We see the level AD/Jrue can be on
We saw the level they were on last year when they absolutely scrubbed up this very similar Portland team
We took a game off GS and competed with them as good as anybody sans Houston, another 60-win team
AD bailed on this team knowing all that same stuff, so it’s hard for us to throw a lot of faith in that duo when we’ve seen how much 1/2 of them believes in it.
We see the level AD/Jrue can be on
We saw the level they were on last year when they absolutely scrubbed up this very similar Portland team
We took a game off GS and competed with them as good as anybody sans Houston, another 60-win team
AD bailed on this team knowing all that same stuff, so it’s hard for us to throw a lot of faith in that duo when we’ve seen how much 1/2 of them believes in it.
Posted on 4/24/19 at 6:51 pm to Crewz
5) Dame/CJ
2) PG/Russ
4) Jokic/Murray
3) AD/Jrue
6) Mitchell/Hobert
1) Harden/CP3
2) PG/Russ
4) Jokic/Murray
3) AD/Jrue
6) Mitchell/Hobert
1) Harden/CP3
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