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Started By
Message
re: Summer League Game Thread: Sons vs Suns 7:00pm CT
Posted on 7/12/23 at 11:55 am to supe12sta12z
Posted on 7/12/23 at 11:55 am to supe12sta12z
Here’s where I agree with you but part of developing a guy is finding minutes for him. Where in the next 2 or 3 years will we find that on our team with a win now mentality? To me your stunting a guys growth by putting him on a team where he wont get many minutes if at all in our rotation. Honestly, why even waste a pick on a guy and pay him? Trade down or trade out completely. Draft either a cheaper guy or use that money in free agency. Part of the hope from some people was that Hawkins would be able to contribute immediately because of his shooting but that doesn’t seem like that will be the case.
Personally, if your trying to get a guy long term like you are stating you get Bufkin. Lively and Dick werent an option so its useless talking about them. Whitmore would also be a better long term potential guy.
Personally, if your trying to get a guy long term like you are stating you get Bufkin. Lively and Dick werent an option so its useless talking about them. Whitmore would also be a better long term potential guy.
2
Posted on 7/12/23 at 11:58 am to Pels_Yaz
I almost wonder if we even did any homework on Whitmore considering he was supposed to go Top 5. Notice the team that picked him, Houston, had actually brought him in for workouts and was considering him for the 4th pick. I get the sense that a lot of teams that passed on him probably didn’t have him in for workouts or medical checks.
Not excusing it, bc there was plenty of film out there to use in an evaluation, but I think it caused him to fall even further bc a lot of teams had not directly met with him.
Not excusing it, bc there was plenty of film out there to use in an evaluation, but I think it caused him to fall even further bc a lot of teams had not directly met with him.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 12:02 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Here’s where I agree with you but part of developing a guy is finding minutes for him. Where in the next 2 or 3 years will we find that on our team with a win now mentality? To me your stunting a guys growth by putting him on a team where he wont get many minutes if at all in our rotation. Honestly, why even waste a pick on a guy and pay him? Trade down or trade out completely. Draft either a cheaper guy or use that money in free agency. Part of the hope from some people was that Hawkins would be able to contribute immediately because of his shooting but that doesn’t seem like that will be the case.
Personally, if your trying to get a guy long term like you are stating you get Bufkin. Lively and Dick werent an option so its useless talking about them. Whitmore would also be a better long term potential guy.
Also, this team is in a huge make it or break it year. Another disappointing season and Zion and/or BI are likely gone. So if the guy at 14 is barely going to get minutes no matter what then why are you drafting for fit when this team could look drastically different in 12 months
Posted on 7/12/23 at 12:16 pm to Balsamic_duck
Because as long as they're still here, you do everything you can to build around them. You're all in until you can't anymore.
Now no one can sit there and say we didn't do everything we could to make them successful. There'll be no more ifs, ands, or buts.
Whitmore is definitely not the hill to die on here.
Now no one can sit there and say we didn't do everything we could to make them successful. There'll be no more ifs, ands, or buts.
Whitmore is definitely not the hill to die on here.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 12:25 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
seems like they were trying to draft for need from the jump. They wanted Lively(Rim Protection) and Dick(Shooting) and once they were gone they stuck with filling a need at shooting
Then they should have moved up to ensure that got who they wanted. It's poor planning and strategy. Lots of players went way higher than projected. But Washington jumped up and got the guy they wanted, like 10 picks higher than projected.
I believe they wanted Hawkin. It was in every mock for months. He is a good fit or will be eventually. He wasn't a reach and he'll be solid at some point. So I'm not upset about it, even though I got super excited when Whitmore fell, who I thought was top 3 in the draft.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 12:32 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Then they should have moved up to ensure that got who they wanted.
Hearing everyone talk about the other draft options at 14, which don't sound that great, reminds me of the team picking Austin Rivers at 10. In hindsight that was a terrible draft and everyone behind Drummond at 9 ended up being a journeyman or worse. So Rivers wasn't a bad pick even though he didn't work out, not trading up for Drummond was the mistake.
But it probably would have cost another 1st to move up even a few spots in this draft. Should you really spend 2 1sts to draft someone that probably isn't a starter long term with this core? Trading another 1st for what might be your #2 to put Drummond next to Davis would have been worth it. Would 2 1sts for Lively or Dick have been worth it? I don't think I'd have been happy with that either.
This post was edited on 7/12/23 at 12:33 pm
Posted on 7/12/23 at 12:36 pm to TigerinATL
The mistake in the draft was not trading another first to move up and get Lillard to pair with AD. Dell loved Lillard and was enamored with him but didn’t have the balls to go get him. Honestly, some would say, if you believe reports, that Griffin was enamored with Scoot but couldn’t close the deal. I’m not going to get in the whole Scoot trade argument but a lot of time was spent on getting Scoot and I dont know how much thme was spent maximizing the pick we had. I mean we even brought Scoot for a visit the last second when we could have used that time bringing a guy that may have dropped to us at 14 instead.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 12:39 pm to Pels_Yaz
No one would probably move down from 2-5 in that draft. Portland for sure wasn’t trading down from 6.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 12:44 pm to jamal
Yeah again we’re just making blind assumptions here. 10 to 6 in regards to the NBA draft is not a humungous jump. You’re acting like in 2012 you knew for a fact Portland wasn’t trading that pick lol I’d love to know how you know that? People were hesitant on Lillard at the time because he was a 4 year guy at a small school.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 12:46 pm to Pels_Yaz
Pretty sure it was widely known Portland loved Lilliard as a prospect and that he’d be their pick.
Really doesn’t even matter tbh. Just a discussion.
Really doesn’t even matter tbh. Just a discussion.
This post was edited on 7/12/23 at 12:47 pm
Posted on 7/12/23 at 12:49 pm to jamal
Yeah, you weren't getting from 10 to 5. 10 to 8 could have been done though and you'd have had your twin towers, someone to play center next to Davis for a decade, and a clear young team time horizon that probably would have forced Demps to slow down.
As for this draft and Scoot, if BI/Zion doesn't work, we'll always look back and wonder what if. But to me I don't think Griff failed to close on Portland, I think Portland failed to close on Griff. There was enough Scoot smoke to say Griff was more than interested and just waiting to get enough value to move one of Zion/BI. In the end I guess Portland wanted a Scoot/Sharpe core more than a Dame and Zion or BI core. I can't say I blame Cronin for that. He gets a much longer time line and would have been expected to contend immediately if he traded Scoot instead of Dame.
As for this draft and Scoot, if BI/Zion doesn't work, we'll always look back and wonder what if. But to me I don't think Griff failed to close on Portland, I think Portland failed to close on Griff. There was enough Scoot smoke to say Griff was more than interested and just waiting to get enough value to move one of Zion/BI. In the end I guess Portland wanted a Scoot/Sharpe core more than a Dame and Zion or BI core. I can't say I blame Cronin for that. He gets a much longer time line and would have been expected to contend immediately if he traded Scoot instead of Dame.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 1:03 pm to TigerinATL
“But to me I don't think Griff failed to close on Portland, I think Portland failed to close on Griff. There was enough Scoot smoke to say Griff was more than interested and just waiting to get enough value to move one of Zion/BI.”
- Yeah when you fail to make a deal for a guy you want thats on Griff too. Saying portland failed to close on Griff is just taking responsibility away from Griff. You want this guy go get him. To me I agree with Cronin, you stick with the cheaper, younger, healthier core. I would argue that was on Griff to change Cronin mind which he didn’t. It’ll be interesting to see what happens in the future. I know the NFL and NBA are different especially on how difficult is it to trade up in the draft but one thing I always respected about Loomis and the Saints, they always go get their guy regardless if the public thinks they win the trade or not. Sometimes it works (Olave) and sometimes it fails miserably (Davenport) but at the end they get their guy. I do wish Griffin would have the same mentality but I think for him its more important to win the trade at the moment than get that player you want.
- Yeah when you fail to make a deal for a guy you want thats on Griff too. Saying portland failed to close on Griff is just taking responsibility away from Griff. You want this guy go get him. To me I agree with Cronin, you stick with the cheaper, younger, healthier core. I would argue that was on Griff to change Cronin mind which he didn’t. It’ll be interesting to see what happens in the future. I know the NFL and NBA are different especially on how difficult is it to trade up in the draft but one thing I always respected about Loomis and the Saints, they always go get their guy regardless if the public thinks they win the trade or not. Sometimes it works (Olave) and sometimes it fails miserably (Davenport) but at the end they get their guy. I do wish Griffin would have the same mentality but I think for him its more important to win the trade at the moment than get that player you want.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 1:28 pm to Pels_Yaz
Listening to Andrew Lopez on Windy's pod today, he said it was draft pick based. If that's true then Griff was never serious about Scoot.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 1:32 pm to TigerinATL
Yeah thats what Griff is telling everyone now. Now hes gotta roll with Zion/BI after the trade rumors and they’re gonna act like I never discussed them in trades. Typical car salesman bullshite.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 1:39 pm to brmark70816
quote:First, Griffin said they tried to move up in the draft but were unable to do so. So, it has nothing to do with poor planning and strategy. They cannot make another team trade with them. Also, Washington moved up 1 spot.
Then they should have moved up to ensure that got who they wanted. It's poor planning and strategy. Lots of players went way higher than projected. But Washington jumped up and got the guy they wanted, like 10 picks higher than projected.
I believe they wanted Hawkin. It was in every mock for months. He is a good fit or will be eventually. He wasn't a reach and he'll be solid at some point. So I'm not upset about it, even though I got super excited when Whitmore fell, who I thought was top 3 in the draft.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 1:41 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:A huge assumption considering how much Portland liked Lillard and how hot a name he was in the draft after his workouts. It is very doubtful they could have gotten from 10 to 6 for an extra 1st in that draft to get Lillard.
The mistake in the draft was not trading another first to move up and get Lillard to pair with AD. Dell loved Lillard and was enamored with him but didn’t have the balls to go get him.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 1:43 pm to NOSHAU
Bingo
Posted on 7/12/23 at 1:47 pm to TigerinATL
I don't think that's what that means. I'm sure Griffin was ready to unload a serious amount of draft capital to make it happen. It's really Portland who were not really serious about moving the pick more than anything else. And that applies to Charlotte as well. All Charlotte wanted to do was force Portland to trade up one spot so they wouldn't have to take Miller ahead of Scoot. But Portland wasn't dumb enough to bite.
This post was edited on 7/12/23 at 1:50 pm
Posted on 7/12/23 at 1:53 pm to NOSHAU
That wasn’t a deep draft like this year even at the time. Honestly it was AD and everyone else. His name was hot but he was still picked sixth. Its a huge assumption if your assuming it wasn’t possible to move up by adding another first (we were also one if the worst teams in the league- making our picks lot more valuable) but regardless that was over 10 years ago so who really knows.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 1:58 pm to NOSHAU
I mean technically you can move up in the draft if you throw enough value at a team. The issue isn’t we couldn’t force a team to trade with to move up, its we weren’t willing to meet their value despite the treasure chest of draft picks people on this board say we have.
I’m sorry I don’t why people on this board take anything Griffin says to the public for face value. The dude has bold faced lied about everything. Again you cant trust a used car salesman at his word.
I’m sorry I don’t why people on this board take anything Griffin says to the public for face value. The dude has bold faced lied about everything. Again you cant trust a used car salesman at his word.
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