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re: Why the Chet hate?
Posted on 5/16/22 at 9:25 am to Dinky Mulberry
Posted on 5/16/22 at 9:25 am to Dinky Mulberry
You aren’t drafting a guy number 1 for him to only be a decoy—-The argument ppl are making here is to draft Chet cause he can shoot open three and in Theory open the floor up (which again is up for debate if that really a thing)—but your number one overall pick shooting 2-3 threes a game is not going to draw the big man on defense away from packing the lane on Zion who’s shooting 70% at the rim to guard a guy that’s only shooting 3 3s a game at a 36-40%.
Again, you all must be banking on Chet shooting 10-15 threes a game—
Again, you all must be banking on Chet shooting 10-15 threes a game—
This post was edited on 5/16/22 at 9:32 am
2
Posted on 5/16/22 at 9:27 am to The_Duke
quote:
Again, you all must be banking on Chet shooting 10-15 threes a game—
No one is.
I'd take Jabari #1. But I have no problem picking Chet.
Can use both hands, great ball handler for his length, great shooter for his length, very good shot blocker, great IQ. The guy is a good basketball player for his age and length.
That doesn't mean he will pan out.
Posted on 5/16/22 at 9:35 am to The_Duke
quote:
Chet cause he can shoot open three and in Theory open the floor up (which again is up for debate if that really a thing)—but your number one over pick shooting 2-3 threes a game is not going to draw the big man on defense away from packing the lane on Zion who’s shooting 70% at the rim to guard a guy that’s only shooting 3 3s a game.
I mean yes, most teams are going to sacrifice the center shooting threes if need be to defend someone like Zion, but a 5 that can hit threes on high volume and with elite efficiency is still invaluable.
Having 4 shooters around Zion, 3 shooters around BI(with the gravity of Zion as the fourth), is basically an unstoppable offense.
Posted on 5/16/22 at 9:35 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
No one is.
I'd take Jabari #1. But I have no problem picking Chet.
Can use both hands, great ball-handler for his length, a great shooter for his length, very good shot blocker, great IQ. The guy is a good basketball player for his age and length.
That doesn't mean he will pan out
That's a reasonable position--
Personally--If we get the 4th pick and Smith, Banchero, and Ivy are gone I may take Chet then--but Sharpe would be in real consideration.
I also don't see that dog in Chet---we need players with fire. The fact that he wasn't the man at Gonzaga scares me.
Also, add in the terrible track record of Gonzaga players not panning out in the league.
Posted on 5/16/22 at 9:36 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
lone exception to be able to play the 4/5 at 6'10" or bigger and weight well under 215lbs when it's literally never been done before.
dont use the word literally when it has been done before teddy.
and honestly when i scroll through my combine measurement database, there is a trend that shows it becoming more common now than it ever was.
Regardless, the last 2 mega prospects to come out with weight concerns(Durant and Davis) proved a lot of these theories wrong. Mainly because you cannot pigeon-hole these guys to certain positions or comparisons and pretend like they won't be able to get it done.
I was just reading an old thread on this board, and this is a quote a came across
quote:
A 215lb adult male who is unable to bench press 185lbs a single time is a cause for concern, especially for a front court player in the NBA
His entire performance at the NBA's pre-draft camp was a red flag. I think he finished something like 2nd to last among like the 70 or so players that attended.
Chet Holgren is not Durant. He's not generational, but I think he can be an all star. Just don't be this guy.
Posted on 5/16/22 at 9:37 am to The_Duke
quote:
JJ was not a center---not sure what you mean
Who gives a frick.
The 3pts count's the same
Why would they disregard one and play the other tight and pretend like that is good X's and O's.
Your point is completely ignorant.
This post was edited on 5/16/22 at 9:42 am
Posted on 5/16/22 at 9:41 am to Bronc
quote:
I mean yes, most teams are going to sacrifice the center shooting threes if need be to defend someone like Zion, but a 5 that can hit threes on high volume and with elite efficiency is still invaluable.
Having 4 shooters around Zion, 3 shooters around BI(with the gravity of Zion as the fourth), is basically an unstoppable offense.
True in spurts---but you don't need a 7ft #1 overall pick to play that role. That's just a waste.
A Guy being drafted #1 overall should be viewed as a franchise player--not some guy you stick one the parameter to shoot 3 3s a game.
A 7fter C you're drafting #1 just to shoot 3s is even more of a waste and those players are typically role players--not franchise builders.
Posted on 5/16/22 at 9:42 am to Lester Earl
quote:
Who gives a frick.
The 3pts count's the same
Why would they disregard one and play the other tigh and pretend like that is good X's and O's.
Your point is completely ignorant.
I don't think you understand the concept of a stretch big and why that theory was important and gained traction in the first place.
It absolutely matters who is guarding who.
Posted on 5/16/22 at 9:43 am to The_Duke
Chet put the ball on the floor and got to the basket exceptionally well for someone that is 7foot.
Also played EXCELLENT Defense and was a great shot blocker. Saying he will "only shoot 3s" is crazy.
Jabari fits that description more than Chet since he can't put the ball on the floor at all.
Also played EXCELLENT Defense and was a great shot blocker. Saying he will "only shoot 3s" is crazy.
Jabari fits that description more than Chet since he can't put the ball on the floor at all.
Posted on 5/16/22 at 9:47 am to The_Duke
quote:
I don't think you understand the concept of a stretch big and why that theory was important and gained traction in the first place.
says the guy piggy backing off an article that doesn't say what he thinks it says. frick outta here lmao
Posted on 5/16/22 at 9:50 am to The_Duke
quote:
True in spurts---but you don't need a 7ft #1 overall pick to play that role. That's just a waste.
A Guy being drafted #1 overall should be viewed as a franchise player--not some guy you stick one the parameter to shoot 3 3s a game.
A 7fter C you're drafting #1 just to shoot 3s is even more of a waste and those players are typically role players--not franchise builders.
I mean others have pointed out he's demonstrated more than just shooting, I'm only addressing this notion that somehow because there may be some more nuance to the whole "stretch 5" discussion, in that they don't maybe open up stuff as much as sometimes hyped, that it somehow heavily devalues that skillset.
Whether your center is pulling defenders away or not, having your 5 able to knock down threes at ~40% can be incredibly valuable.
Posted on 5/16/22 at 9:50 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Saying he will "only shoot 3s" is crazy.
I wasn't saying that---the pro Cheters were saying that the reason to draft him
but I also don't see the college driving part of his game translating unless he adds real strength to his game--which will take 3-5 yrs. We saw how long it took BI to get there with guards and wings guarding him. Chet won't be able to handle that contact at 190lbs.
His defense as a free safety would be nice in spurts---but as pointed out. He fouled a lot in college and the game moves much faster in the NBA so that will be a huge challenge as well especially if the team attacks him in switches.
He just has too much stuff to work on for a #1 pick.
This post was edited on 5/16/22 at 9:53 am
Posted on 5/16/22 at 10:18 am to Lester Earl
quote:
dont use the word literally when it has been done before teddy.
and honestly when i scroll through my combine measurement database, there is a trend that shows it becoming more common now than it ever was.
so i assume you can come back with a 6'10"+ guy that weighs under 215lbs that has been successful in the nba playing the 4/5, and note that when i say this, i have to assume that Chet gains significant weight b/c i'm 100% sure you aren't going to find a 4/5 that weighs under 200lbs. and note that i said under 215, not 215.
215 seems to be the benchmark of what it takes to be able to play the 4/5, and even there, the list is extremely small.
quote:
Regardless, the last 2 mega prospects to come out with weight concerns(Durant and Davis) proved a lot of these theories wrong
You mean 19 year old 220lb Kevin Durant and 19 year old 222lb Anthony Davis, who both ended up adding 20+ more lbs on their frame over time?
Don't compare those two guys to 20 year old 195lb Chet. Chet has to make a big weight gain just to get to those two guys "skinny" draft weights.
quote:
Chet Holgren is not Durant. He's not generational, but I think he can be an all star. Just don't be this guy.
I have said multiple times that i think Chet can be a good player. I"m just pointing out that it sure as shite wont' be at the 5, and he's got a ways to go to even be able to do it at the 4. I am more than aware that there's more to being strong than doing bench press, especially for guys with orangutan arms like Durant and Chet. Lower body strength has a lot more to do with nba strength than upper body strength.
Chet's length is elite, and if he can be quick enough to recover when beat, and also tough enough to rotate over and block/alter shots, then he without a doubt will be a good nba player. I still wouldn't take him in the top 3.
Posted on 5/16/22 at 10:23 am to The_Duke
quote:
He just has too much stuff to work on for a #1 pick.
100%
and that doesn't mean he can't work on them and get better and be an all-star, but like you said, that's not what you are looking for with the #1 pick.
I haven't said i think he'll be a bust, or that i wouldn't take him in the top 10, just that i wouldn't take him top 3.
I would not be upset if we took him at #4. I probably would have rathered other guys, but i'd be ok with it.
Posted on 5/16/22 at 10:25 am to TeddyPadillac
No one wants to take him with the #1 pick. This thread has turned into the twilight zone
Posted on 5/16/22 at 10:27 am to Lester Earl
quote:
No one wants to take him with the #1 pick. This thread has turned into the twilight zone
people are stupid.
Posted on 5/16/22 at 10:29 am to Lester Earl
Yeah pretty much everyone would take Jabari.
You are on record as thinking Jabari is borderline generational I believe.
You are on record as thinking Jabari is borderline generational I believe.
Posted on 5/16/22 at 10:31 am to Fun Bunch
I think Jabari is who we should take at 1. I think Banchero would be my 2 over Chet
Posted on 5/16/22 at 10:34 am to Lester Earl
When do you think Chet got on the scale to get his 195 lb weigh in? The Zags first game was 11/9/21
Follow, what arbitrary height and weight does he need to be at to not be a “concern”?
Follow, what arbitrary height and weight does he need to be at to not be a “concern”?
Posted on 5/16/22 at 10:42 am to Bronc
quote:
Whether your center is pulling defenders away or not, having your 5 able to knock down threes at ~40% can be incredibly valuable
I think the problem we have in this discussion, is that some folks just don't understand where the NBA is headed concerning the "stretch 5". It was the same thing several years ago, when many folks didn't understand where the NBA was headed overall, in regards to the 3-pt shot.
Just really hard to have a serious discussion on the overall future of the 3-pt shot back then...if one person thought the 3-pt shot was just a temporary fad and teams would quickly figure out they couldn't win by shooting a bunch of 3s...and the other person thought the 3-pt shot was only gonna become more & more prevalent with each passing year.
Nowadays, it's the "stretch 5"... with folks on both sides of the issue. But to an astute observer, it is already very obvious that just about every team is searching for that "stretch 5"...or trying to develope one within their current roster. Watching the playoff game between the Celtics & Bucks for instance, both teams featured older players who have totally "revamped" their game in the latter years of their career...and successfully so, to try and fill this role. If somebody doesn't understand who I'm talkin' about...it's just another of the reasons it's hard to have a serious discussion on the future of the "stretch 5" in the NBA.
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