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Started By
Message
re: Zion will not be traded (ESPN reporting)
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:04 am to Pels_Yaz
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:04 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
If someone says we should only trade after hes MVP because thats what I believe thats a valid argument. If you say dont trade when his value low and then be like you cant trade when hes MVP- thats not valid.
You’re personal belief of what constitutes a good argument has no bearing on the fact that you’re making a terrible argument
1
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:05 am to ghost2most
quote:Preach
I disagree.
I've been a Saints fan my entire life. Nothing takes away 2009. Not all the disappointments, etc. All the down years were worth it because of 2009.
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:10 am to brmark70816
quote:
This is the same shite we lived through with Davis. Every year, if he can just stay healthy..
Well you don't have a choice if you want to compete in the NBA for a title. You need a superstar level player. Zion is that dude.
Injury prone doesn't equal shape and health. By all means the medical staff could've cleared him much sooner so he could play into shape. Davis was in decent shape, not great, while he was here, and was hurt all the time.
Zion has not been disciplined enough to be ready to play. The team has said it as loudly as they can without calling him out directly. That's a mental thing. You can fix your mentality, but you can't fix being injury prone.
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:13 am to SCLSUMuddogs
Its not a personal belief its logic. The whole premise of the argument of NOT selling low is you’re saying- we should only sell HIGH but if you then say we should not sell HIGH hes too valuable, your argument is completely mute. Thats a terrible argument. Regardless of my personal belief which has nothing to do with it.
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:17 am to Pels_Yaz
My fellow son, does a person not wanting to trade a player change the fact that trading him at a low value will achieve diminishing returns? Does that person’s personal belief change that very basic fact?
This post was edited on 6/16/23 at 11:18 am
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:19 am to LSUAce007
If the Pels address the backup PF situation (could be draft, trade, or Liddell being solid) then they have a chance to be better even if Zion doesn't play dramatically more.
Obviously we want them all to have healthy years, but my point is, there is a path forward for improvement even if much stays the same.
Obviously we want them all to have healthy years, but my point is, there is a path forward for improvement even if much stays the same.
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:19 am to SCLSUMuddogs
My belief doesn’t change the fact that trading him when his value is low is going to get poor returns. That fact should be voiced so that it is part of our collective conversation. My belief doesn’t change the pro vs con equation
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:24 am to SCLSUMuddogs
Bro- I’m just being honest this is worse than your IQ analogy. Where are you going with this? You keep bringing up personal beliefs. Its not a personal belief. Arguments become invalid when your point has no logic. The whole not sell low argument is based on diminished value- in essence you are saying his value isnt worth trading him. But if you are asked a question about if he wins MVP and would you sell then- the person respond no way. Well then your argument of not selling low because of value has proven incorrect. Thats not a personal belief. Any debate, mock trial, etc.- you will have lost that argument. I work in the legal field- just letting you know thats how arguments are refuted or deemed invalid. Again thats not personal belief.
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:25 am to Pels_Yaz
What in the actual frick are you talking about? Lol
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:26 am to SCLSUMuddogs
Nevermind ask shell. He got what I was saying.
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:27 am to SCLSUMuddogs
You’re making gigantic run-on posts that are becoming tough to read through. I am just gonna go ahead and leave you to it once again.
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:32 am to ghost2most
quote:
I think it comes down to this. Barring a miracle and the Pels winning the draft lottery AGAIN, the franchise will never be able to acquire a player with this amount of upside. Zion is boom or bust. Sure you could trade him and maybe hit a ceiling of a 2nd round team or you hold on to him and hope to hell he puts it together and you're playing for titles.
That’s completely fair.
I just think there is next to 0 chance that Zion reaches what we once perceived/that he’s briefly showed as his potential.
He’s in his early 20s and shown a complete unwillingness or inability to heal. Nobody heals better with age. He’s too heavy to have a long career.
Call it muscle, fat, whatever. A guy that is only 6’6” shouldn’t be close to 300 lbs playing basketball long term.
I just don’t think there is any real potential for sustained dominance from him due to his injuries, his body, and now his increasing immaturity.
I totally get it if someone disagrees.
This post was edited on 6/16/23 at 11:40 am
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:33 am to SCLSUMuddogs
You’re doing the same and keep arguing with me without reading my posts clearly. No offense I feel like you continously try to argue with me without clearly reading what I’m saying and then say your lost when your arguments go no where. Like you kept harping on personal beliefs for no reason. Im talking about what makes an argument valid but its all good.
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:35 am to Pels_Yaz
frick it, I’ll try one last time
Agreed
Correct, that would be a fact regardless of what I think about anything else
This is where you’re wrong. The original fact is still the fact. His value was low and you’d still get bad returns. You could still trade him at low value, but the fact is you’ll get bad returns. That I wouldn’t trade him when his stock is high doesn’t change the fact that trading him when it’s low would get diminishing returns
quote:
Arguments become invalid when your point has no logic
Agreed
quote:
The whole not sell low argument is based on diminished value- in essence you are saying his value isnt worth trading him
Correct, that would be a fact regardless of what I think about anything else
quote:
But if you are asked a question about if he wins MVP and would you sell then- the person respond no way. Well then your argument of not selling low because of value has proven incorrect
This is where you’re wrong. The original fact is still the fact. His value was low and you’d still get bad returns. You could still trade him at low value, but the fact is you’ll get bad returns. That I wouldn’t trade him when his stock is high doesn’t change the fact that trading him when it’s low would get diminishing returns
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:40 am to SCLSUMuddogs
I mean honestly, his going out and having an MVP season would only validate the argument that we shouldn’t have sold when his value was low
Posted on 6/16/23 at 11:57 am to SCLSUMuddogs
Dude please stop.
“This is where you’re wrong. The original fact is still the fact. His value was low and you’d still get bad returns. You could still trade him at low value, but the fact is you’ll get bad returns. That I wouldn’t trade him when his stock is high doesn’t change the fact that trading him when it’s low would get diminishing returns”
What you don’t understand is the crux of your argument is based on diminished returns. I am talking about what makes a valid argument not facts. The idea you wouldn’t trade him when his value is high diminishes your argument of not trading when his value is low. This is not about facts or personal beliefs, its about what a valid argument is. Those two statements are contradictory making your argument invalid- again that is not a personal belief. Its about what is viewed as valid argument in any society. Now if you want to say you want to argue and say anything you want and it doesn’t matter if the argument makes sense as long as its factual- sure it’s a free country you could do whatever you want.
“This is where you’re wrong. The original fact is still the fact. His value was low and you’d still get bad returns. You could still trade him at low value, but the fact is you’ll get bad returns. That I wouldn’t trade him when his stock is high doesn’t change the fact that trading him when it’s low would get diminishing returns”
What you don’t understand is the crux of your argument is based on diminished returns. I am talking about what makes a valid argument not facts. The idea you wouldn’t trade him when his value is high diminishes your argument of not trading when his value is low. This is not about facts or personal beliefs, its about what a valid argument is. Those two statements are contradictory making your argument invalid- again that is not a personal belief. Its about what is viewed as valid argument in any society. Now if you want to say you want to argue and say anything you want and it doesn’t matter if the argument makes sense as long as its factual- sure it’s a free country you could do whatever you want.
Posted on 6/16/23 at 12:14 pm to LSUAce007
How many NBA teams would be interested in a guy who is perpetually injured and misses huge chunks of playing time?
Having him on the team is like being upside down on a house----you paid too much for it and now it's worth a hell of a lot less and it's hard to cut your losses no matter which way you go.
Having him on the team is like being upside down on a house----you paid too much for it and now it's worth a hell of a lot less and it's hard to cut your losses no matter which way you go.
Posted on 6/16/23 at 12:31 pm to gumbo2176
quote:
How many NBA teams would be interested in a guy who is perpetually injured and misses huge chunks of playing time?
Guarantee any team interested in him has people reaching out to step-dad and Moriah to ask.. " We know you were hurt, but were you hurt, hurt? Or new orleans hurt?"
Ex. Bitch boy in L.A.
This post was edited on 6/16/23 at 12:32 pm
Posted on 6/16/23 at 12:44 pm to gumbo2176
quote:A lot if that player is a generational talent.
How many NBA teams would be interested in a guy who is perpetually injured and misses huge chunks of playing time?
Posted on 6/16/23 at 1:00 pm to SCLSUMuddogs
quote:
Other way around dude. I’ve thought we’re stuck with Zion for a while and I’m pretty sure I’ve said this exact post to you like this week.
When he’s hurt you can’t ever really trade him because you’ll get bad returns. When he’s healthy you’re not going to want to trade him because he’s awesome. We’re kind of stuck with him.
I just think they are going to give it one more season. This upcoming season.
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