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Started By
Message
re: Flight from Jakarta Crashes into the Ocean
Posted on 10/29/18 at 10:59 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
Posted on 10/29/18 at 10:59 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
Your vestibular system especially will produce erroneous results causing you to make inappropriate control inputs.
e.g. the graveyard spiral
0
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:06 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
Bro, I’m a commercial instrument helicopter pilot and I will tell you no you cannot rely on your proprioceptive system because that is how you will become spatially disoriented.
So honest question, let's say this was a pilot tube issue.
You have multiple instruments here that are showing counter productive results right? That's what I'm trying to say as far as use your head.
The pilot tube is showing you are going faster than you really are? But your thruster level is not where it should be right? And your gauges that show what your engine is producing as far efficiency, load, or whatever is not at 100% clearly right? I mean you are either producing thrust or not right?
So if your thrust level is not where it should be and your engine gauge is not showing the same use level as your air speed gauge, then at what point do you use your head and say something isn't right?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:07 am to baldona
quote:
Use your freaking brain. Also, would you not know where the thrust lever was in relation to how fast the plane should be going?
The FIRST thing you lean when you train to fly by instruments is not to trust your senses.
quote:
Also, do these planes not have a backup airspeed monitor like GPS or something?
GPS would give you groundspeed and you can use that plus the wind to calculate airspeed.
But grondspeed would change significantly in a steep climb or descent since the aircraft is vertical and not covering much ground. Which it seems was the case here.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:10 am to SuperflyLSU
They fly Max 800s now.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:12 am to Michael T. Tiger
RIP and prayers sent to those families of the passangers
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:20 am to Michael T. Tiger
anyone know what the depth is where the crash was?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:28 am to Topwater Trout
quote:
anyone know what the depth is where the crash was?
About 120 feet deep.
They are dealing with high wind and waves currently.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:34 am to Bullfrog
quote:
Prayers sent
I'll let them know...i imagine souls on their way to hell....then all of a sudden god gets a text....re: prayers sent....
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:36 am to Michael T. Tiger
Lion Air is on the EU airline blacklist.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:45 am to RedFoxx
quote:
The FIRST thing you lean when you train to fly by instruments is not to trust your senses.
Again I understand that. But the further forward the thrust lever is pushed the more thrust right? So if its only 75% of the way, but the airspeed is showing 100% climbing speed than something is obviously wrong?
It seems like most of the pilot error situations are when the pilots ONLY rely on their main instruments. They don't look at the back ups and secondary instruments that would show a primary instrument failure.
This post was edited on 10/29/18 at 11:46 am
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:57 am to Derrick From Texas
quote:OMG so clever and edgy!!!
I'll let them know...i imagine souls on their way to hell....then all of a sudden god gets a text....re: prayers sent....
fricking nerd
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:57 am to RedFoxx
quote:
About 120 feet deep.
should be easy to recover the black box
Posted on 10/29/18 at 12:00 pm to baldona
quote:
It seems like most of the pilot error situations are when the pilots ONLY rely on their main instruments. They don't look at the back ups and secondary instruments that would show a primary instrument failure.
There are three types of spatial disorientation. Recognized, Unrecognized, and incapacitating.
I am not familiar with this aircraft type to make a judgment on the availability or quality of standby instruments or on the CRM process the company has in place.
Malcolm Gladwell devotes an entire chapter in his book Outliers on the reasoning behind the very high rate of Asian aircraft accidents.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 12:02 pm to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
on the reasoning behind the very high rate of Asian aircraft accidents.
This post was edited on 10/29/18 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 10/29/18 at 12:12 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
should be easy to recover the black box
Supposedly has been recovered.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 12:12 pm to Derrick From Texas
“ Prayers sent “ or variations thereof , are the Universal manner that decent people express their empathy, condolences and compassion about something that is shared throughout humanity, and that is our shared human mortality. It is an expression of our shared humanity and meant to convey that we are all in this uncertain thing called Life together and are subject to the same whims of fate and suffering and death. One does not even need to believe in the power of prayer or even be a believer to say it.
Whereas your comments are just you being an insufferable douche canoe.
Whereas your comments are just you being an insufferable douche canoe.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 12:14 pm to RedFoxx
quote:
Supposedly has been recovered.
dang that was fast
Posted on 10/29/18 at 12:17 pm to baldona
quote:
So honest question, let's say this was a pilot tube issue.
You have multiple instruments here that are showing counter productive results right? That's what I'm trying to say as far as use your head.
The pilot tube is showing you are going faster than you really are? But your thruster level is not where it should be right? And your gauges that show what your engine is producing as far efficiency, load, or whatever is not at 100% clearly right? I mean you are either producing thrust or not right?
So if your thrust level is not where it should be and your engine gauge is not showing the same use level as your air speed gauge, then at what point do you use your head and say something isn't right?
Tell us more about your flight expertise.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 12:36 pm to baldona
quote:
Again I understand that.
Do you? Because you said to trust what you feel. If you go by what you think you're feeling you're going to make serious mistakes.
And it's pitot tube not pilot tube.
quote:
But the further forward the thrust lever is pushed the more thrust right?
If both engines are functioning properly. If you have one engine out and you put in max power on both engines you're going to have max asymmetrical thrust which will make the aircraft yaw to the inoperative engine side.
quote:
So if its only 75% of the way, but the airspeed is showing 100% climbing speed than something is obviously wrong?
You have two types of climb: best angle of climb and best rate of climb. Their vertical speed fluctuated dramatically, they something was wrong.
quote:
It seems like most of the pilot error situations are when the pilots ONLY rely on their main instruments.
Based on what? Perception?
quote:
They don't look at the back ups and secondary instruments that would show a primary instrument failure.
A pilot is going to look at all the information in front of him along with a quick reference manual on how to troubleshoot it.
Now did they have enough time or altitude to troubleshoot or did they also lose and engine? The blackbox will tell.
This post was edited on 10/29/18 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 10/29/18 at 12:37 pm to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
Malcolm Gladwell devotes an entire chapter in his book Outliers on the reasoning behind the very high rate of Asian aircraft accidents.
What are the cliff notes on this?
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