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Message
re: We, as a society, really dropped the ball on potential police reform
Posted on 6/1/20 at 11:20 am to jsquardjj
Posted on 6/1/20 at 11:20 am to jsquardjj
quote:
This is a reform that should have happened a long time ago. Obama didn't do it. Trumps not doing it
Funding for police cameras started when Obama was in office. I'm in no way a fan of Obama, but Trump needs to do something as well. Something bigger than just adding police cameras.
1
Posted on 6/1/20 at 11:21 am to Baws
You ready for their salaries to increase drastically at yours and other tax payers' cost?
That's the only way that the situation will improve. They honestly aren't paid enough for all the shite they have to take. The pay would have to be over 6 figures for me to consider that job.
Intelligent individuals get paid more, deal with the public less, at home with their families every night, and don't have their live's threatened because of their line of work.
That's the only way that the situation will improve. They honestly aren't paid enough for all the shite they have to take. The pay would have to be over 6 figures for me to consider that job.
Intelligent individuals get paid more, deal with the public less, at home with their families every night, and don't have their live's threatened because of their line of work.
Posted on 6/1/20 at 11:23 am to LB84
quote:
You ready for their salaries to increase drastically at yours and other tax payers' cost?
Cities need to fully fund what’s important and give up funding all the extras. Police, fire, garbage, sewer, and public safety come first,
Posted on 6/1/20 at 11:31 am to LB84
I'm not ready for anything. Like I said, this issue has gone and passed. Nothing is being done.
Maybe Trump can institute something, but I don't see a far overreach on his part where there'd be meaningful, big change.
Business as usual. Just wait for the next George Floyd to be caught on camera and innocent business's be looted.
Maybe Trump can institute something, but I don't see a far overreach on his part where there'd be meaningful, big change.
Business as usual. Just wait for the next George Floyd to be caught on camera and innocent business's be looted.
Posted on 6/1/20 at 11:36 am to whoisnickdoobs
quote:
I'm in no way a fan of Obama, but Trump needs to do something as well. Something bigger than just adding police cameras.
Good luck with that. As of a call with Mayors and Governors this morning in regards to protestors...
"You have to dominate, if you don't dominate you're wasting your time. They're going to run over you. You're going to look like a bunch of jerks. You have to dominate," the president told governors.
LINK
All this does is fan the flames and piss people off. I just don't get why he thinks this is effective leadership.
Posted on 6/1/20 at 11:51 am to kage
quote:
Or actually look at how incredibly useless our prison system is. If you put people in jail and treat them like animals, they'll come out like animals.
Is prison supposed to help reform people and help them learn form their mistakes and put them in a position to come back to society and contribute and actually be a better person, or is it a place to just throw people into for a certain amount of time like animals until they're let back out?
It's a business that's been made by politicians on both sides of the aisle.
*Conveniently missing from the below chart is Clinton's "three strikes law" in 1994.*
This post was edited on 6/1/20 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 6/1/20 at 11:54 am to Baws
Let's be honest. The biggest problem with the police force is the low pay and low requirements for becoming a police officer. When you have stupid criminals interacting with stupid police officers, bad things happen.
Increase the pay, increase the training/requirements, you will have a better product. It's not hard to understand.
Increase the pay, increase the training/requirements, you will have a better product. It's not hard to understand.
Posted on 6/1/20 at 11:56 am to Baws
Wanna hear some ironic shite...
BLM is posting on Twitter to go steal certain suppliea from home depot to help protect one's self during protest. They say to steal from home depot over buying local because home depot is anti union
Yet the whole problem in most police forces is the union and the inability to be held accountable monetarily for mistakes.
These people have an IQ below 90, they do not care about actual reforms. Most of those looting and doing good rat shite do not have jobs, they don't care, just want to fight the man.
BLM is posting on Twitter to go steal certain suppliea from home depot to help protect one's self during protest. They say to steal from home depot over buying local because home depot is anti union
Yet the whole problem in most police forces is the union and the inability to be held accountable monetarily for mistakes.
These people have an IQ below 90, they do not care about actual reforms. Most of those looting and doing good rat shite do not have jobs, they don't care, just want to fight the man.
Posted on 6/1/20 at 11:59 am to Baws
I agree. This was one of those cases that was very hard to dispute. It was all in camera to see. Most cases there is a bit reasonable doubt to the case, whether you want to believe it or not. Either it's not in video, conflicting stories, conflicting evidence, etc.
In this case it was bright as day. 10 minute video with the cop kneeling on the man's neck while he pleads for life(at that point, one could reasonable argue that the cop simply thought he was was lying and was trying to get out of arrested) But then he falls unconscious, and the cop stays on his neck for another 3 minutes. Even when paramedics arrive, he did not get up until the last second possible. There were multiple citizens demanding that they at least let him get up, put him in the car, or to just freaking check his pulse, yet none of that happened.
I believe one of BLM fatal mistakes in their movement was the insistence that white people could never relate cuz this stuff would never happen to them. I disagree, as a quote from MLK goes " an injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". If a cop unjustly killed a black person and could get away with it. You better be damn sure it could happen to a white person or anyone for that matter.
There are dirty cops, dirty politicians, dirty DAs, dirty judges, etc etc. These people in these positions of authority have the power to negativily affect all people not just black people. That's why this is something we should all care about.
In this case it was bright as day. 10 minute video with the cop kneeling on the man's neck while he pleads for life(at that point, one could reasonable argue that the cop simply thought he was was lying and was trying to get out of arrested) But then he falls unconscious, and the cop stays on his neck for another 3 minutes. Even when paramedics arrive, he did not get up until the last second possible. There were multiple citizens demanding that they at least let him get up, put him in the car, or to just freaking check his pulse, yet none of that happened.
I believe one of BLM fatal mistakes in their movement was the insistence that white people could never relate cuz this stuff would never happen to them. I disagree, as a quote from MLK goes " an injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". If a cop unjustly killed a black person and could get away with it. You better be damn sure it could happen to a white person or anyone for that matter.
There are dirty cops, dirty politicians, dirty DAs, dirty judges, etc etc. These people in these positions of authority have the power to negativily affect all people not just black people. That's why this is something we should all care about.
Posted on 6/1/20 at 12:00 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
1. Make the entry level pay competitive with other professions, with commensurate hiring standards. Require BA's or equivalent work experience, with hiring bonuses for masters and PhD's in suitable fields like psychology or social work. If a rookie cop started at $125K with strict academic requirements and vetting standards, the police force would look markedly different in a couple of years.
2. Alternatively, make it similar to the military; a cadre of career police officers supervising rank and file officers who treat it as a temporary job; fulfilling their civic/patriotic duty for a few years before going on to their next endeavor. Some European countries do this.
Both suggestions would also work for teachers. Neither would solve all our problems, each would present its own set of problems. But if you're looking for radical ideas, those are two.
You're on the right track in IMO. However, I'd go another route. Military conscription, such as what Israel does, for every citizen upon completion of high school. Upon completion of their duty time conscripts earn a leg up in transitioning to civil duty (police, fire, usps, teacher, etc.). Making everyone a integral part of the process would lower crime, increase national pride, and reduce generational dependency on government aid/assistance. I believe a large portion of our problem with these career criminals, professional protestors, etc. lack hope which begets a DGAF attitude.
Posted on 6/1/20 at 12:01 pm to DiamondDog
quote:
Think about the entire country and how often these Floyd type events actually occur. It’s minuscule comparatively.
We will never know the extent of how often these occur. If the Floyd incident hadn't been filmed, this would have just been another "crackhead dies of heart attack while resisting arrest" story. Instead, there's a murder investigations and national riots.
Posted on 6/1/20 at 12:03 pm to DiamondDog
quote:
How about criminal reform? Like don’t commit fricking crime.
Bring back the guillotine mentality. Kneel on someone's neck to kill them, then you should have your neck knelt on for the public to see. Shoot a police officer in the face? Get your own arse shot in the face. Eye for an eye.
That'll set a precedent on why not to do dumb shite going forward. We have laws for a reason and oftentimes the punishments are too lax (like with this POS cop) or in some cases overly strict (busting dudes for weed and giving them waaaay too long of sentences).
And the fact that supposedly the MPD actually had this kneeling on a perp's neck in their training manual going back to 2016 iirc goes to show that we def need some form of police reform. I mean for christ's sake, the dude was already cuffed
Posted on 6/1/20 at 12:03 pm to bountyhunter
But it’s hard to implement.
Taxes will rise, which is rarely a political winner.
Additionally you give them even MORE incentive to have cops function as revenue generators so the cities can afford their increased salaries.
It sucks but it almost feels like you need a benevolent dictator with a lot more resources at their disposal than the vast majority of cities/states. In a democratic society you have so many competing interests and a high demand for expediency.
Democracy is great, but this is the downside. Everyone can agree a problem needs to be addressed, but actually addressing the problem in reality takes a ton of time and discipline to see the plan through. If you work for months/years to get a slim majority for the policy you want, that majority can evaporate with the quickness once people realize the problem didn't go away overnight. Then your right back where you started, the problem still exists and people are even more pissed off about it.
Taxes will rise, which is rarely a political winner.
Additionally you give them even MORE incentive to have cops function as revenue generators so the cities can afford their increased salaries.
It sucks but it almost feels like you need a benevolent dictator with a lot more resources at their disposal than the vast majority of cities/states. In a democratic society you have so many competing interests and a high demand for expediency.
Democracy is great, but this is the downside. Everyone can agree a problem needs to be addressed, but actually addressing the problem in reality takes a ton of time and discipline to see the plan through. If you work for months/years to get a slim majority for the policy you want, that majority can evaporate with the quickness once people realize the problem didn't go away overnight. Then your right back where you started, the problem still exists and people are even more pissed off about it.
This post was edited on 6/1/20 at 12:06 pm
Posted on 6/1/20 at 12:04 pm to DiamondDog
quote:
Hey. How about you take a glock, run around the city in BR responding to every distress call, deal with your life constantly being in danger, then have some crackhead point a cell phone in your face twice a night yelling WorldStar.
Then let’s talk about “police reform”. How about criminal reform? Like don’t commit fricking crime
Why can't there be both. Why do we have to pick and choose . Why can't we hold criminals accountable, while simultaneously holding dirty and bad cops accountable?
Posted on 6/1/20 at 12:07 pm to Baws
Burning down Joe Schmo's business on Main Street isn't the solution. He doesn't set police policy/tactics. Downfall of a representative government instead of a "true" democracy (counterpoint is that you have some stability instead of mob rule).
You want to protest in front of the police station, police chief, mayor, governor etc. until they change something (and ideally "what" is somewhat clearly defined, not just "make it better"), I'm behind you 100%.
I feel very strongly that trying the same thing expecting different results is wasted efforts. But I also feel that moving from peaceful (even if disruptive) protests to fricking with innocent peoples health and livelihoods is counterproductive.
You want to protest in front of the police station, police chief, mayor, governor etc. until they change something (and ideally "what" is somewhat clearly defined, not just "make it better"), I'm behind you 100%.
I feel very strongly that trying the same thing expecting different results is wasted efforts. But I also feel that moving from peaceful (even if disruptive) protests to fricking with innocent peoples health and livelihoods is counterproductive.
Posted on 6/1/20 at 12:08 pm to Baws
This is a well reasoned post and how I think the majority of Americans feel both on police behavior and the riots. Except I see it more as a squandered opportunity by a self-destructive culture. But maybe my expectation of accountability is just racist.
Posted on 6/1/20 at 12:11 pm to QJenk
quote:
Why can't there be both. Why do we have to pick and choose . Why can't we hold criminals accountable, while simultaneously holding dirty and bad cops accountable?
I'm with you there. It's clear people on both sides have some sort of agenda and don't care to see the other sides' point of view. It's sickening.
Posted on 6/1/20 at 12:13 pm to Baws
I remember a legendary king term DA told me many years ago, “What you don’t realize son, is that most police officers if they weren’t cops would be criminals. They come from the same neighborhoods, just live on different signs of the street. This was true in 1980 and is true today, except their is actually less accountability.
Posted on 6/1/20 at 12:15 pm to DiamondDog
No one is forcing them to be cops. They know what they are signing up for. They don't get the right to treat one race differently than others nor is it an excuse for police brutality. Not every situation is life or death either. Failure to put your turn signal on isn't a life or death situation. A counterfeit 20 dollar bill should not be a life or death situation.
Posted on 6/1/20 at 12:25 pm to Baws
First and foremost, I would LOVE to see the police relieved of the fund raising business. The chickensh!t speed traps, drug stops, etc are purely for money in these communities. Next, the war on drugs needs to be drawn down and curtailed about 90%. I'm not a drug user, but if you want to self medicate, then I don't think the state should stop you. I think if you medicate and break a law causing another person harm, then it doesn't matter if you are drugged or not... it's still breaking that law. Making drugs illegal makes us less free.
The last thing I would do is abolish the thin blue line. Any cop covering the bad actions of another cop will be fired and charged with whatever a civilian would be charged with for covering up a crime. It's sad the amount of crap that 'thin' blue line covers from abuse to dui's to murder. No one should be above the law.
The rioting was never about the murder everyone agreed was murder. It was about an election happening soon and Antifa couldn't resist because this was always their plan.
The last thing I would do is abolish the thin blue line. Any cop covering the bad actions of another cop will be fired and charged with whatever a civilian would be charged with for covering up a crime. It's sad the amount of crap that 'thin' blue line covers from abuse to dui's to murder. No one should be above the law.
The rioting was never about the murder everyone agreed was murder. It was about an election happening soon and Antifa couldn't resist because this was always their plan.
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