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Started By
Message
re: Why did the US lose the Vietnam War?
Posted on 1/15/22 at 4:36 pm to SaintlyTiger88
Posted on 1/15/22 at 4:36 pm to SaintlyTiger88
Didn't Professor Terguson cover that in Back to School?
0
Posted on 1/15/22 at 4:42 pm to nealnan8
quote:
3.The problems with our draft. Do you really want to try to win a war with lots of troops who did not want to be there?
There should have been zero deferments for young men in college. Everyone (outside medical and religious reasons) should have been eligible for the draft.
If middle class sons were being drafted
in large numbers for that shitshow Congress would have pulled the plug in six months. That's why there were college deferments, and why the Guard/Reserve was never activated except in a few very rare instances.
By the same token, we wouldn't have spent 20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan if the burden of service was shared equally.
This post was edited on 1/15/22 at 4:46 pm
Posted on 1/15/22 at 4:44 pm to NPComb
quote:
And because of politics
Congress would not declare war because they feared reactions from Russia and Chins. However both countries helped with arms and men against American troops.
We were bombarded politically for bombing North Vietnam do to being tied down by not being committed to war instead of the status they left our brothers to die for. According to agreements we were not supposed to cross the line. We received likewise unpopular with politics for going into neighboring countries to chase down the vc.
Posted on 1/15/22 at 4:44 pm to Cracker
go read some history on General Douglas MacArthur warning to never get in a land war in SE ASIA. many advisors to Kennedy & Johnson told them to get out, but 50,000 american men died for nothing!. The Vietnam War was a giant cluster F***. I
just happen to be reading Max Hastings book "Vietnam an epic tragedy 1945-1975". good history on how it all came about.
some nights i get so pissed off reading it i can't get to sleep. GD i feel for those men who served!!
just happen to be reading Max Hastings book "Vietnam an epic tragedy 1945-1975". good history on how it all came about.
some nights i get so pissed off reading it i can't get to sleep. GD i feel for those men who served!!
Posted on 1/15/22 at 4:44 pm to SaintlyTiger88
Politicians and a stupid little thing they call the Geneva Convention.
Posted on 1/15/22 at 4:49 pm to SaintlyTiger88
Imagine if the French invaded and tried to divide the USA after we just won the revolutionary war
The Vietnamese fought just like we would have if we were in their situation
The Vietnamese fought just like we would have if we were in their situation
Posted on 1/15/22 at 4:51 pm to SaintlyTiger88
LBJ
Posted on 1/15/22 at 4:51 pm to SaintlyTiger88
I’m sure it’s been covered a million times in this thread but there’s a quote that says something like
“You can feed the body, but it doesn’t matter if you don’t feed the soul.”
More or less it meant we could give all the firepower we wanted to S Vietnam but they just didn’t have the willpower to see it through - especially in comparison to their northern counterparts.
Interestingly, being an open society played a part of that. No one in the West was afraid to report on if the war was going poorly etc. In North Vietnam they obviously got all propaganda all the time about how well things were going etc etc
It was a lot of mind over matter.
“You can feed the body, but it doesn’t matter if you don’t feed the soul.”
More or less it meant we could give all the firepower we wanted to S Vietnam but they just didn’t have the willpower to see it through - especially in comparison to their northern counterparts.
Interestingly, being an open society played a part of that. No one in the West was afraid to report on if the war was going poorly etc. In North Vietnam they obviously got all propaganda all the time about how well things were going etc etc
It was a lot of mind over matter.
This post was edited on 1/15/22 at 4:52 pm
Posted on 1/15/22 at 4:53 pm to bird35
Just like the last 20 years in the Middle East, we weren’t fighting a true national army. It was a combination of local militia (VC) and some NVA guys with Russian backing. You would basically have to eliminate every fighting age male to squash any future rebellions or have a national army that was capable of taking over ready to go.
Neither of those things was going to happen. Germany and Japan had enough of a population that didn’t want to continue conflict after the war so your crazy leadership couldn’t come back to power. That’s never going to happen in these 3rd world countries. All they do is have ongoing civil wars.
Neither of those things was going to happen. Germany and Japan had enough of a population that didn’t want to continue conflict after the war so your crazy leadership couldn’t come back to power. That’s never going to happen in these 3rd world countries. All they do is have ongoing civil wars.
Posted on 1/15/22 at 4:53 pm to AUFanInSoCal
quote:
Unpopular war at home. It
This eventually was true. But people forget that the war was popular and supported in the US in the early years.
Posted on 1/15/22 at 4:55 pm to SaintlyTiger88
Go to YouTube
Look Up "Vietnam War Prager U"
Learn.
Eta: The war was "won" as much as any non-declared would be, until Democrats won control of Congress and gave it away.
Look Up "Vietnam War Prager U"
Learn.
Eta: The war was "won" as much as any non-declared would be, until Democrats won control of Congress and gave it away.
This post was edited on 1/15/22 at 4:56 pm
Posted on 1/15/22 at 4:55 pm to Winnebago Tiger
quote:
This is just factually wrong. We DID bomb them into the Stone Age. Problem we ran into is that they actually thrived in Stone Age conditions.
We bombed a lot but did not commit ground troops to N Vietnam or other areas outside of S Vietnam. Bombing is obviously an important tactic but can’t win a war on its own.
Posted on 1/15/22 at 5:03 pm to Tigeralum2008
Knowing what I know now about our military I agree with the posters saying it was to make money.I don’t think there was any intention to win,it was all about making as much money as possible for the military industrial complex and enrich politicians and generals.
It pisses me off at how naive I was when I was 18-19.I wanted to join the Marines at 17,my dad refused to sign for me but signed for me to join the Navy.I was in the Seabees,twice they asked for volunteers 1970.I signed up both times but was never called up.I wanted to do my part to help stamp out communism.What a cuck I was.
It pisses me off at how naive I was when I was 18-19.I wanted to join the Marines at 17,my dad refused to sign for me but signed for me to join the Navy.I was in the Seabees,twice they asked for volunteers 1970.I signed up both times but was never called up.I wanted to do my part to help stamp out communism.What a cuck I was.
Posted on 1/15/22 at 5:05 pm to SaintlyTiger88
Several reasons. One was the one year tour approach. You got drafted, trained then went over there for a year.
When it got closer to people's one year the more they did to try to survive. Hide out, etc and it really had an impact on the morale of the soldiers, which you can't blame them.
Those young men was forced to go fight in a war we shouldn't have been in and they came back home and people were yelling and throwing shite at them as if it was their choice.
Its weird because of course I respect anyone who has fought for this country, but at the same time I don't blame anyone who tried to avoid going to Vietnam.
My mom told me she graduated with a guy who went to jail (she said jail, I am not sure if he went to jail or prison) because he refused to go and it was either go to vietnam or serve time.
But I had a boss who did't get drafted, but he got arrested for drug possession, etc. It wasn't his first arrest and the judge gave him two options. Get locked up or go to vietnam and not have a criminal record.. He picked vietnam. I had read before that the whole 1 year tour was part of the failure. He (old boss) told me stories about the things guys would do in order to avoid going into battle.
He also told me about a guy he became pretty good friends with who got addicted to heroin. He said he was sort of a "choir boy" when he got to Vietnam. He started smoking cigarettes and then got into heroin.
Several weeks before he went home he laid up in the corner of his bed in order to kick get clean from heroin. He didn't want his parents to see him that way. He tried to kick the cigarette habit, but he couldn't.
When it got closer to people's one year the more they did to try to survive. Hide out, etc and it really had an impact on the morale of the soldiers, which you can't blame them.
Those young men was forced to go fight in a war we shouldn't have been in and they came back home and people were yelling and throwing shite at them as if it was their choice.
Its weird because of course I respect anyone who has fought for this country, but at the same time I don't blame anyone who tried to avoid going to Vietnam.
My mom told me she graduated with a guy who went to jail (she said jail, I am not sure if he went to jail or prison) because he refused to go and it was either go to vietnam or serve time.
But I had a boss who did't get drafted, but he got arrested for drug possession, etc. It wasn't his first arrest and the judge gave him two options. Get locked up or go to vietnam and not have a criminal record.. He picked vietnam. I had read before that the whole 1 year tour was part of the failure. He (old boss) told me stories about the things guys would do in order to avoid going into battle.
He also told me about a guy he became pretty good friends with who got addicted to heroin. He said he was sort of a "choir boy" when he got to Vietnam. He started smoking cigarettes and then got into heroin.
Several weeks before he went home he laid up in the corner of his bed in order to kick get clean from heroin. He didn't want his parents to see him that way. He tried to kick the cigarette habit, but he couldn't.
Posted on 1/15/22 at 5:41 pm to Ponchy Tiger
quote:
Too much political interference. Not allowing the Commanders in field to their job and win.
This and television.
Posted on 1/15/22 at 5:54 pm to theGarnetWay
quote:
More or less it meant we could give all the firepower we wanted to S Vietnam but they just didn’t have the willpower to see it through - especially in comparison to their northern counterparts.
This seems like a lesson this country refuses to learn.
Posted on 1/15/22 at 5:55 pm to OweO
quote:
S Vietnam but they just didn’t have the willpower to see it through - especially in comparison to their northern counterparts.
Bet if they had it to do over they'd have fought their asses off. Communism killed many more of them than the Viet Cong ever could.
Posted on 1/15/22 at 6:07 pm to SaintlyTiger88
The lie that the US lost the Vietnam War needs to die. The US destroyed the Viet Cong during the Tet Offensive and left the NVA a hollowed out shell. We bombed the North until we literally ran out of targets. The Vietnam War Ended in January 1973 with the signing of the Paris Peace accords.
After the war was over the Soviets helped North Vietnam rebuild their military while Democrats in Congress here in the US cut off military aid to South Vietnam. It was not long before the North was once again fully rearmed and ready for war while South Vietnam’s military was basically immobilized. The North launched an offensive in Spring of 1975 which the South had little to no hope of stopping unless the US intervened. Congress, controlled by Democrats, refused to authorize assistance to South Vietnam, despite the fact we were treaty bound to do so. Thus the war that North Vietnam launched against South Vietnam, TWO YEARS AFTER THE END OF THE VIETNAM WAR, finally overran the South.
After the war was over the Soviets helped North Vietnam rebuild their military while Democrats in Congress here in the US cut off military aid to South Vietnam. It was not long before the North was once again fully rearmed and ready for war while South Vietnam’s military was basically immobilized. The North launched an offensive in Spring of 1975 which the South had little to no hope of stopping unless the US intervened. Congress, controlled by Democrats, refused to authorize assistance to South Vietnam, despite the fact we were treaty bound to do so. Thus the war that North Vietnam launched against South Vietnam, TWO YEARS AFTER THE END OF THE VIETNAM WAR, finally overran the South.
This post was edited on 1/15/22 at 6:17 pm
Posted on 1/15/22 at 6:17 pm to nealnan8
quote:
1. The failure to stop the supply chain of arms and men down the Ho Chi Minh trail. Yes, we did drops lots of bombs on them, but the supply chain still continued.
2.The effort to build and shape a nation and win a war was to much to ask our troops for. We should have just concentrated on winning the war.
3.The problems with our draft. Do you really want to try to win a war with lots of troops who did not want to be there?
There should have been zero deferments for young men in college. Everyone (outside medical and religious reasons) should have been eligible for the draft.
Posted on 1/15/22 at 6:38 pm to SaintlyTiger88
War was just like afghanistan, it was lost when it was started
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