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re: Pex vs Copper - New Home Construction
Posted on 1/21/19 at 7:39 pm to poochie
Posted on 1/21/19 at 7:39 pm to poochie
Don't even consider copper. If you have acidic water like I do you will have to put a pH raising tank in the line somewhere.
Pex is much, much easier to work with and will last much longer than copper.
Oh one more thing---I would not put any water lines in the slab.
Pex is much, much easier to work with and will last much longer than copper.
Oh one more thing---I would not put any water lines in the slab.
This post was edited on 1/21/19 at 7:42 pm
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Posted on 1/21/19 at 7:41 pm to poochie
Pex was actually one of the few things that had to be on my short list of "wants" when I was looking to buy 3 years ago. Being serious about that.
We just remodeled part of our facility last year into new offices and showers and used exclusively Pex. It's incredibly easy to work with and install, and at work or home, I've never once had to repair any.
We just remodeled part of our facility last year into new offices and showers and used exclusively Pex. It's incredibly easy to work with and install, and at work or home, I've never once had to repair any.
Posted on 1/21/19 at 7:43 pm to TigerAxeOK
Did you use a manifold when you put it in like this one?
LINK
I like the idea you can cut off the water to any one line at one spot. I would probably have a cut off at each fixture too.
LINK
I like the idea you can cut off the water to any one line at one spot. I would probably have a cut off at each fixture too.
Posted on 1/21/19 at 7:47 pm to wickowick
Biggest downside of PEX is where it comes out of the wall. Copper is sturdy there. If PEX is not properly secured at these points pipes will move. I have seen urinal valves move when flushed as well as shower heads that the goose neck would move sideways on. Also the crimps can fail though its about as rare as a solder joint going out. I wouldn't say copper is better than PEX but each has its benefits and downfalls.
Posted on 1/21/19 at 8:02 pm to wickowick
quote:
PEX has been around many years, I don’t know if any downsides
It's main downside is that it doesn't make nice straight runs in a wall space and it's undetectable by more sophisticated scanners, both issues when it comes to repairs and future remodels. I've seen far more issues with a PEX line getting clipped by a screw or nail because it curved just the wrong way on the stud than copper lines. Copper is more forgiving for certain installation errors, especially joints if you get the basic steps right. PEX you need to make sure the crimping system is calibrated and you pay strict attention to EVERY step in making connections including gauging. I've seen copper joints that have lasted decades with poor soldering and PEX connections leak within minutes even after double checking the fit and crimp. I use copper and PEX when making repairs dependent on the situation, PEX really shines for me when doing wet repairs and making new runs in crawl spaces and attics. I like copper for tight spaces in cabinets and making repairs to existing copper plumbing where I don't have leaking valves. It really comes up to the quality of the people doing the work in new construction and I'd do whichever as long I knew the contractor was good.
Posted on 1/21/19 at 8:52 pm to poochie
Use uponor pex. It uses expansion fittings. Basically, the highest rated pex you can get. I have had several leaks in copper in my house. I was remodeling my master bath this year anyway so I replaced as much of the copper as I could at that time. Spoke with several plumbers first and did tons of research online. The consensus was PEX. And the highest quality of pex is PEX-A which is what uponor makes.
The fittings can be an epa plastic which are fairly inexpensive, or brass. The fittings are made by expanding the pipe and a slip ring over the fitting which gives no water flow restriction, so if you use 1/2" pipe, you get 1/2" flow all the way even through the fittings. The other pex with crimps and copper pipe are all restricted at the fittings.
Also, PEX-A has memory, so the joints actually get stronger over time, and if you try to bend the pipe and go to far and put a crease in it, it is repairable by heating the pipe.
Also, if you YouTube PEX vs copper freeze tests you will see that the PEX, and specifically PEX -A, take much longer to burst. This is due to the expansion that is built into the PEX.
And last, definitely do a centralized manifold with individual shutoffs. I've seen those in alot of new construction and I am very jealous.
The fittings can be an epa plastic which are fairly inexpensive, or brass. The fittings are made by expanding the pipe and a slip ring over the fitting which gives no water flow restriction, so if you use 1/2" pipe, you get 1/2" flow all the way even through the fittings. The other pex with crimps and copper pipe are all restricted at the fittings.
Also, PEX-A has memory, so the joints actually get stronger over time, and if you try to bend the pipe and go to far and put a crease in it, it is repairable by heating the pipe.
Also, if you YouTube PEX vs copper freeze tests you will see that the PEX, and specifically PEX -A, take much longer to burst. This is due to the expansion that is built into the PEX.
And last, definitely do a centralized manifold with individual shutoffs. I've seen those in alot of new construction and I am very jealous.
This post was edited on 1/21/19 at 8:54 pm
Posted on 1/21/19 at 9:39 pm to dltigers3
^ this guy hit it on the head. Use Pex-A and a manifold. A big manifold is still under $1000 and worth every penny.
I work in commercial construction. No one uses copper in new builds. If it is good enough for a build that's engineered to last 100 years in commercial use, it's definitely good for your home build.
If I was building a house tomorrow everything would be pex.
I work in commercial construction. No one uses copper in new builds. If it is good enough for a build that's engineered to last 100 years in commercial use, it's definitely good for your home build.
If I was building a house tomorrow everything would be pex.
Posted on 1/21/19 at 9:56 pm to poochie
PEX hands down. Originally my house was built new with copper pipes. A lightning strike near by caused "electrolysis" and over the couple of years developed 5 leaks inside. Re-plummed with Pex and no problems hence. 20+ yrs.
Posted on 1/21/19 at 10:00 pm to 2geaux
quote:
PEX hands down. Originally my house was built new with copper pipes. A lightning strike near by caused "electrolysis" and over the couple of years developed 5 leaks inside. Re-plummed with Pex and no problems hence. 20+ yrs.
Have you had any recent lightning strikes though? I like Pex and I agree, but anyone that says there are no negatives is lying. Its great stuff, but its not 100% better is my only point.
The real answer OP is a great plumber will use something like 95% pex and 5% copper. As said above there are certainly places like stub outs for shut off valves behind toilets and sinks, mixers in your bath/ shower, etc. where your top plumbers will still use some copper.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 12:16 am to fishfighter
quote:
1200' of 1" PEX
If running your line in the ground from the street then you may still be better off cost wise using pvc. 500ft of 1" pex-a is pushing $700. 100' of pex-b (crimp ring) is $50.
These are prices from supplyhouse.com which I've found to be very competitive.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 12:18 am to poochie
Pex hands down
Posted on 1/22/19 at 3:12 am to dltigers3
This ^^^^
What he said... and basically check into which system they'll use. There's two main method's one uses internal fittings which reduces flow but is cheaper for the installer to get started with. The other method works on the outside so does not reduce flow but cost the plumber a little more to get equipped. Just be sure they use latter of those two methods. Biggest draw back to me is cosmetics - you'll hardly ever see it run as neat/clean as a 'good' plumber will run copper.
What he said... and basically check into which system they'll use. There's two main method's one uses internal fittings which reduces flow but is cheaper for the installer to get started with. The other method works on the outside so does not reduce flow but cost the plumber a little more to get equipped. Just be sure they use latter of those two methods. Biggest draw back to me is cosmetics - you'll hardly ever see it run as neat/clean as a 'good' plumber will run copper.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 5:59 am to awestruck
Uponor, Pex A is the only way to go. The post outlining every reason hit the target.
Never use the crimp ring pex.
NEVER use shark bite fittings unless for temporary fix.
Pex has copper fittings that are used for water supply cutoffs at sinks and toilets that eliminate the concerns listed in other posts.
Uponor. PEX A.
You will thank us
Never use the crimp ring pex.
NEVER use shark bite fittings unless for temporary fix.
Pex has copper fittings that are used for water supply cutoffs at sinks and toilets that eliminate the concerns listed in other posts.
Uponor. PEX A.
You will thank us
This post was edited on 1/22/19 at 6:01 am
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:02 am to awestruck
Last year I added a bathroom upstairs and currently am in the process of a kitchen remodel. Did/doing all the work myself. Pex is the only way to go IMO.
I used to go to church with a master plumber, and remember asking him about it when I started seeing it in stores. He ranted and raved about it being the greatest thing since sliced bread. Getting ready to do the bathroom addition, I spoke to several other pro-plumbers and they all agreed that pex is what they would use in their home.
Another thing they all agreed on, was the use of crimp connections vs the shark bite push on fittings. I have used quite a bit of the push on connections and had good luck, but if you are doing a major job, I would buy the crimper and go that route. You'll get your money's worth.
I used to go to church with a master plumber, and remember asking him about it when I started seeing it in stores. He ranted and raved about it being the greatest thing since sliced bread. Getting ready to do the bathroom addition, I spoke to several other pro-plumbers and they all agreed that pex is what they would use in their home.
Another thing they all agreed on, was the use of crimp connections vs the shark bite push on fittings. I have used quite a bit of the push on connections and had good luck, but if you are doing a major job, I would buy the crimper and go that route. You'll get your money's worth.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:07 am to Bolivar Shagnasty
We built in 2013. We used pet throughout and did have one leak on a sharkbite fitting. I think that was an install issue and not the product.It’s froze a couple times in the attic when we got into single digits but didn’t fail or have any leaks . A few minutes with a hair dryer and we were back in business. I drop water a little more now.I am very happy with pex and will be running a line underground to my shop as soon as things dry out outside.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:44 am to poochie
Definite CON of copper: Meth heads.
Most of the new house construction (90% or more) use pex in our area, however there's always one or two that want to use copper...why? I have no idea. However the plumbers have to wait until the house has locks on it before they can do any work because of the meth heads stealing the copper to re-sell. It impacts the build schedule too.
I don't know about copper..and any knowledgeable person can help me out...but pex seems to take longer to warm up...we have a long run from the water heater to our master bath..and it takes a while to warm up. Once warm it's good..but the funny thing is...shut the water off...and go back 20 min later..and the water is cold again coming from the hot water side. Does pex wick heat fast?
Most of the new house construction (90% or more) use pex in our area, however there's always one or two that want to use copper...why? I have no idea. However the plumbers have to wait until the house has locks on it before they can do any work because of the meth heads stealing the copper to re-sell. It impacts the build schedule too.
I don't know about copper..and any knowledgeable person can help me out...but pex seems to take longer to warm up...we have a long run from the water heater to our master bath..and it takes a while to warm up. Once warm it's good..but the funny thing is...shut the water off...and go back 20 min later..and the water is cold again coming from the hot water side. Does pex wick heat fast?
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:47 am to NASA_ISS_Tiger
They will steal the wire too. My former supervisor built a house in Zachary a few years ago. Someone came in one night and cut out all copper. That was plumbing and electrical.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 7:00 am to geauxnc0308
quote:
The local supply house has a section of pex they keep in the freezer. When it’s integrity gets questioned they pull it out, run warm water over it until it thaws, then throw it back in freezer to prove a point. It’s good stuff
I love Pex for this reason. My house is off the ground. All supply lines are Pex and discharge are PVC.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 7:19 am to poochie
Ever had a copper line split in cold weather? Pex can freeze with water in it and will expand up to 1-1/2 times it's size without bursting.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 7:31 am to uway
quote:
I love Pex for this reason. My house is off the ground. All supply lines are Pex and discharge are PVC.
A couple of years ago I was duck hunting in a bad freeze and my wife didn't let the water drip hard enough. We also have a raised house and the only place I had water was where the water line exited the ground and entered the house. I was able to fil a crawfish pot about 1/3 of the way and light the burner. 15 minutes later water was flowing freely.
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