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Started By
Message
re: Debate: "Small Gov Conservatives are not really small Gov"
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:27 am to BCreed1
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:27 am to BCreed1
quote:
Are you suggesting that the founding fathers did not set up a Constitutional republic?
They set up a federal, democratic, constitutional republic, if we're getting technical.
quote:
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
You did not emphasize the correct limitation, which I did in bold above.
FDR's threat of court packing to thwart the USSC ruling his New Deal schemes unconstitutional led to Wickard, which changed the interpretation of that clause to mean "pretty much anything," and is why our fedgov became a leviathan thereafter.
1
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:30 am to kingbob
quote:
“Small government” is often synonymous with “limited government” when discussing issues at the federal level. Limited government usually means advocating for restraining the federal government from making decisions on issues or exercising powers not explicitly granted to the federal government in the Constitution.
Agreed.
quote:
With that analysis in mind, someone who subscribes to limited government would not necessarily have an issue with federal restrictions on immigration as the power to set rules regarding naturalization and immigration is an explicitly granted power to Congress under Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution. Meanwhile, setting interest rates which lenders are permitted to charge is much more tenuously justified by the enumerated powers of Congress.
Correct too. But here is the jest of that. We are a Republic and they, the fed gov, is to represent us in that. For example, merit based immigration. If that is what the people want, we are a republic and they are to adjust to the will of the people.
That's obviously tricky, for the lack of a better term, due to the fact that we can vote in communism. Thus "A Republic if you can keep it".
quote:
With that said, one can be in favor of small government at the federal level while also supporting significantly larger government policies at the state or local levels. In that respect, I find republicans to often be hypocritical with respect to issues of individual and economic liberty.
agree on that too.
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:31 am to Pettifogger
quote:
What's the limit on this "if you accept some government you must accept all government" angle?
That's not the angle at all. But rolling with that, areas not given to the Fed Gov.
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:32 am to BCreed1
quote:
Based on what?
The Constitution.
Only the legislature has the authority to determine the value of minted currency. At no point, does it mention interest rates anywhere in the Constitution.
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:32 am to BCreed1
quote:
If that is what the people want, we are a republic
FYI, this is the democratic part of our system, too.
quote:
and they are to adjust to the will of the people.
And they do this under threat of democratic reactions during elections.
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:34 am to BCreed1
There is no small government. Only pro Constitutional populism vs Cultural Marxism. Thats it. Conservatism is in a DEEP coma and may not wake up anytime soon as Statist assumptions have gripped BOTH parties, to one degree or another.
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:35 am to dgnx6
quote:
On this board its the anti trump crowd that uses the small government sarcastic quip.
Is having government control over and extending border protection small government? Prob not, which is why libertarians are for open borders.
And it's not our constitution either.. We are a Republic.
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:35 am to lake chuck fan
quote:
That being said, people that get in trouble with credit card debt shouldn't have to pay 30% interest.
What other contracts between private parties do you want limited? In what other ways are we too stupid to make our own decisions?
This reminds me of the leftists promoting Obamacare because people they claimed people were too stupid and didn't agree to the right contract, and they needed government to make these plans illegal, instead.
My plan was made illegal and my monthly premiums went up something like 10x
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:35 am to Lsupimp
quote:
Only pro Constitutional populism vs Cultural Marxism.
Where does promoting price caps (capping interest rates at 10%) fall?
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:36 am to Zach
quote:
The 'size' of govt has 2 big categories:
a. The number of areas in which they decide to govern individual behavior. IE, they didn't use to fine drivers for not wearing a seat belt.
b. The number of paid employees hired to do jobs that could be done by half that number. IE, every dept gets a budget raise every year regardless of need.
Both 'a' and 'b' have increased drastically over the last 100 years. The founding fathers wrote in their letters that it is natural for govt to strive to grow itself and citizens should be wary.
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:36 am to the808bass
quote:
That has no analog to restricting credit card interest.
It’s a dumbass proposal and should be roundly laughed at.
Yet there's the constitution.....
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:38 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
And how did they envision they should regulate immigration of that Constitutional Republic?
I just answered that. It's in the constitution.
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:39 am to lake chuck fan
quote:
Isn't that basically, what it comes down to?? Lol Let's be honest, there's no hard, set in concrete, black and white, rules or laws that totally define left, right, big government, small government, etc.
Personally, I believe people should stay away from credit cards. That being said, people that get in trouble with credit card debt shouldn't have to pay 30% interest.
I agree. And the Fed Gov caps it now with Military and Fed backed credit unions.
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:40 am to BCreed1
There needs to be a middle ground between unchecked government and unchecked corporatism
Where that line is is what we argue over
Where that line is is what we argue over
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:40 am to SlowFlowPro
Intervention in the Free Market. Statist. The only thing there is.
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:42 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You did not emphasize
You totally ignored it. Where in the constitution does it mention Capitalism in any form let alone your view on "no gov"?
Waiting..
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:49 am to BCreed1
Hard to be small gov when your competing against Santa clause’s money printer. Conservatives wouldn’t be small gov anyway because they enjoy control and power and they need supporters and their votes too. So it’s basically WWF ouchea.
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:55 am to BCreed1
quote:
Where in the constitution does it mention Capitalism in any form l
By heavily restricting the original powers of the federal government to regulate agreements among persons.
You're also ignoring the Contracts Clause, which regulated the state power.
quote:
No State shall...pass any...Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts,
Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 (Curation is mine)
So yes, by HEAVILY limiting government regulation of private contracts/transactions, the Constitution is pro-capitalism.
It took leftists 150 years to get the Supreme Court to warp this view (as I described earlier ITT).
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:55 am to Lsupimp
quote:
Conservatism is in a DEEP coma and may not wake up anytime soon as Statist assumptions have gripped BOTH parties, to one degree or another.
Posted on 9/19/24 at 11:56 am to BCreed1
quote:
let alone your view on "no gov"?
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