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Message
re: Dispensationalism is a Heresy
Posted on 8/19/25 at 10:51 am to Champagne
Posted on 8/19/25 at 10:51 am to Champagne
quote:
As I have said many times around here, I don't like to mix Politics and Religion together
I used to think this way but the purpose of religion is to foster a relationship with God, enabling humans to know, love, and serve Him, ultimately saving souls one my one. Religion helps form a theological foundation for our morals and they way we live every day. As such, it's unavoidable to not mix religion with politics.
Case in point: this very topic. Mixing religion with foreign policy.
1
Posted on 8/19/25 at 10:55 am to Tmo Sabe
quote:
If it's new it ain't true.
I agree with this generally. Also there are also plenty of old heresies that like to crop back up under new names.
And there are some minor things like the long-held belief that Paul wrote Hebrews that have been legitimately questioned.
I’m rereading AW Pink on Hebrews and he was all in on Paul being the author. It also dawned on me just how long ago he was writing when he was talking about Queen Elizabeth being a child. Lol.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 10:55 am to wfallstiger
quote:
I believe it is the only nation [geographical] that has been reconstituted in the annals of history.
What?
Posted on 8/19/25 at 10:56 am to GumboPot
Fruits of Dispensationalism.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 10:59 am to scottydoesntknow
quote:
Do you believe the current nation state of Israel is by defacto inheritors of God's covenant? Do you believe that ONLY those professing Christ as God are inheritors of God's covenant?
I believe that Jews are God’s chosen people. I believe that if you believe Jesus shed his blood for our sins, died and was buried and rose again is grafted into God’s chosen people just like the Bible says. I also believe the Jews in Israel are the descendants of Abraham and are still a part of God’s chosen people yet they are unbelievers of their Messiah. I also believe that since Jesus’s death that no Jew is saved until they believe that Jesus shed his blood for their sins that they will not reach Heaven. However, I believe once the tribulation takes place that salvation is obtained by enduring until the end and then acceptance of a Jesus as their savior whether that be Jew or Gentile.
I believe that God made an everlasting covenant with the line of Abraham,Issac, and Jacob just as the Bible states.
Do I support the government of Israel? I’m indifferent to it. Do I understand the policy of the US towards Israel? Somewhat. Also a little indifferent to that as well. For fulfillment of God’s blessings and curses in the OT about Israel I believe the US has fulfilled that duty already.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 11:26 am to CorchJay
quote:
I believe that Jews are God’s chosen people. I believe that if you believe Jesus shed his blood for our sins, died and was buried and rose again is grafted into God’s chosen people just like the Bible says. I also believe the Jews in Israel are the descendants of Abraham and are still a part of God’s chosen people yet they are unbelievers of their Messiah. I also believe that since Jesus’s death that no Jew is saved until they believe that Jesus shed his blood for their sins that they will not reach Heaven. However, I believe once the tribulation takes place that salvation is obtained by enduring until the end and then acceptance of a Jesus as their savior whether that be Jew or Gentile. I believe that God made an everlasting covenant with the line of Abraham,Issac, and Jacob just as the Bible states. Do I support the government of Israel? I’m indifferent to it. Do I understand the policy of the US towards Israel? Somewhat. Also a little indifferent to that as well. For fulfillment of God’s blessings and curses in the OT about Israel I believe the US has fulfilled that duty already.
Fair enough. I dont see how you can reconcile this view with the New Testament. Its almost as if Paul directly responding to you when he writes in Romans 9,
quote:
For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring
In Romans 11, Paul refers to branches being broken off. If the Covenant is everlasting tied to literal genetic ancestry of Abraham, how can branches then be removed? Paul refers to Jews as the natural branch of the tree, not the root(important note) because they WERE God's chosen people. Now there is but ONE qualifier for being on the branch. It has nothing to do with ancestry.
It is important that we recognize this. What is the nation state of Israel doing to advance God's Kingdom. Nothing, they stand in the way of it. Jews deserve NO special treatment from Christians and supporting them, when they act in an anti-Christian manner IS sin
Posted on 8/19/25 at 11:38 am to Penrod
quote:
That’s as legit as me seeming to remember you saying you liked blowing dudes.
Yeah, except that I can replay at least part of the conversation back to you with specifics.
I had posted that almost all of the first wave feminists had written that they got their feminist ideas by channeling spirits, and I had posted that I believed them when they said that.
You responded that that made me a loon (or some similar pejorative term).
My response to that was that YOU were the one agreeing with the people claiming to have received their wisdom from channeled spirits, so which one of us was the loon? (Remember now?)
And I don't recall you correcting me and telling me that no, you didn't agree with them after all and that I had misinterpreted your posts on the thread. Did I miss that post?
quote:
I’m married to a stay-at-home wife. We have very traditional roles in our family because both of us wanted it that way. I’m an alpha male and she is a VERY traditional woman who is a nurturer from the word “Go”.
Cool story (except for the part about being an alpha male, which based on your posts here I absolutely do not believe).
Now all you have to do is state that not only do you live that way, but you think that society would be much improved if the vast majority of society lived that way in order to correct my memory.
I doubt you will because I think that's what your, "because both of us wanted it that way" statement was meant to hedge, but we'll find out shortly.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 12:14 pm to scottydoesntknow
That’s the problem with picking and choosing verses that support an argument a not taking God as the Author of the Bible that used believers to write for him.
By a one verse belief system then Jesus didn’t come for Gentiles. He himself said he was only sent for the house of Israel. Another teaching that would be against replacement theology.
By a one verse belief system then Jesus didn’t come for Gentiles. He himself said he was only sent for the house of Israel. Another teaching that would be against replacement theology.
This post was edited on 8/19/25 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 8/19/25 at 12:50 pm to CorchJay
quote:
Oh that’s right you aren’t Christian you are Catholic big difference
Thank you very much for underscoring and illustrating my contention around here that most Protestants do not consider Roman Catholics to belong to the religion of Christianity. Many around here didn't believe me when I advised them of this truth, but, you have cleared it up for us.
Most Protestants do NOT consider Roman Catholics to belong to either the Christian Religion OR the Body of Christ. And this is not a new Protestant doctrine - I think it was a Protestant preacher named Spurgeon who wrote a theology book in the late 19th century - he declared in his book that Catholics are not Christians.
It's nice to know that so many Protestants believe that the Church that Jesus Christ founded on earth is not a Christian Church.
This post was edited on 8/19/25 at 1:00 pm
Posted on 8/19/25 at 1:05 pm to SkiUtah420
RC's don't have this dilemma. 
Posted on 8/19/25 at 1:16 pm to mudshuvl05
quote:
Worship The Christ, not the government of Tel Aviv.
I was agreeing with your entire post until the chart.
Islam does not believe he is the messiah as in the Son of God nor does it believe he was crucified
Posted on 8/19/25 at 1:23 pm to Champagne
quote:
It's nice to know that so many Protestants believe that the Church that Jesus Christ founded on earth is not a Christian Church.
I grew up Protestant, went to quite a few different versions. Sunday school, Wednesday bible, Sunday morning and evening. I was completely immersed in the anti-Catholic propaganda. It was really crazy how much Catholic bashing that I heard AND participated in.
That was until I converted about 5 years ago to Catholicism. One of the best days of my life. And yet, I've never once heard Catholics bash the protestants on the level as growing up. The anti-Catholic propaganda can't be by accident, it's a concerted effort.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 1:30 pm to FooManChoo
the modern nation state of Israel is not the heir of God’s promises to ancient Israel
Posted on 8/19/25 at 1:35 pm to Champagne
quote:
the USA is a Protestant country
Wrong.
The USA is a post Christian country. The overwhelming majority either do not believe or do not believe enough to practice seriously their religion.
Christianity is dying out in America.
True Christin's are once again becoming the minority as it was foretold in the end days.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 1:39 pm to Goforit
quote:
If you don't think Israel is important in the rule of the kingdoms of the earth you are stupid. God chose Israel to be the head of all nations. God said He would bless those who bless Israel and He would curse those who curse Israel. He was speaking about individuals and nations. If you don't understand this you will not only be on the wrong side of history but more importantly on the wrong side of God. These truths were held long before there were Dispensationalists.
What a fricking idiot.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 1:40 pm to Champagne
quote:
Most Protestants do NOT consider Roman Catholics to belong to either the Christian Religion OR the Body of Christ.
I think Christians belong to the Body of Christ. They may call themselves Methodists, Catholics, Baptist, whatever. Not all who call themselves those things are Christians, but Christians can be all those things.
This is an odd thing for you to get upset over, though, as it seems sorta reciprocal to me.
quote:
Protestants, because they believe in heresies directly contrary to Divine Revelation as expressed in both Sacred Scripture and through the Church’s teaching authority, are not members of the Christian Faith.
https://fatima.org/news-views/catholic-apologetics-111/
Posted on 8/19/25 at 2:06 pm to CorchJay
quote:
That’s the problem with picking and choosing verses that support an argument a not taking God as the Author of the Bible that used believers to write for him. By a one verse belief system then Jesus didn’t come for Gentiles. He himself said he was only sent for the house of Israel. Another teaching that would be against replacement theology.
Bound and determined to cling to your heresy. I havent cited one verse...but many. I could suggest that the entire chapter of
Romans 11 is an essay on this very topic, but itd make no difference to you.
I could reference Jesus Himself who recalled single passages of scripture for teaching, correction and rebuke, but im sure itd make no difference to you.
You suggest Catholics arent Christian which is an insane opinion. They profess Christ and that is enough
You refuse to use any scripture at all to back up your opinion, you just know it to be true I guess.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 2:14 pm to Snipe
quote:
The USA is a post Christian country. The overwhelming majority either do not believe or do not believe enough to practice seriously their religion.
I disagree completely. You may be correct that currently this is the case, but I certainly believe that revival is possible
Posted on 8/19/25 at 2:16 pm to SoWhat
quote:That's weird. I've been to the same Church for 34 years, participated in the things you mentioned, was involved in prison ministry (ecumenical) and weekend retreats. I can't recall ever hearing of Catholics being bashed other than differing theologies. For instance; transubstantiation. Just can't get my head around that one.
I was completely immersed in the anti-Catholic propaganda. It was really crazy how much Catholic bashing that I heard AND participated in.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 2:25 pm to scottydoesntknow
quote:
but I certainly believe that revival is possible
The end times are not what you think.
Christ's church prevails but will not became some world domination. As a matter of fact, the church is about to enter a time of great persecution and shrinking.
A separating of the wheat form the chafe so to speak. Many will fall away. But hell will not prevail over it.
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