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re: Dispensationalism is a Heresy
Posted on 8/19/25 at 5:37 pm to Harry Rex Vonner
Posted on 8/19/25 at 5:37 pm to Harry Rex Vonner
There are Protestants who believe Catholics aren't Christians and therefore will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, yet ignore the new covenant entirely when it comes to Jews because of a perverted interpretation of the New Testament. These people are sick.
1
Posted on 8/19/25 at 5:37 pm to SoWhat
quote:
Petrus is latin for rock, which is derived from the Greek word Petros, which is a translation for the Aramaic word Kepha, the name that Jesus gave Simon (Peter).
"You are Petros (a rock), and on this petra (rock) I will build my church..."
“Peter” (Petros) means “little rock” or “stone”, while “this rock” (petra) means “large rock” or “boulder”.
Matthew 7:24–27
“Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock (petra).”
(So we are to assume he is referring to Peter?)
Matthew 21:42
“Jesus said to them, ‘Have you never read in the Scriptures:
‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone;
this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?”
1 Corinthians 3:11
“For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”
Ephesians 2:20
“Built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone.”
1 Peter 2:6–8
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious...
The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.”
1 Corinthians 10:4
“...they drank from the spiritual Rock (petra) that followed them, and the Rock (petra) was Christ.”
(So Paul is saying Jesus is the Rock and Peter? No.)
Jesus is the rock. He is referring to himself or possibly Peter's confession that Jesus is the Christ. Peter is not the rock. Above in 1 Peter 2:6-8 he refers to Jesus as the cornerstone. The cornerstone was the first stone laid in a structure where all other stones were aligned from. The foundation if you will.
In these verses above Jesus is clearly identified as the rock, foundation, cornerstone, etc. of the Christian faith. Peter was a sinner that needed a savior. So was Mary and all of the other disciples. While they can be honored for their contributions to the start of the early church, Jesus should get every single ounce of the glory regarding our faith and ultimate salvation.
This post was edited on 8/19/25 at 5:39 pm
Posted on 8/19/25 at 6:09 pm to Diamondawg
quote:
So, I've been a member of the First Self-Righteous Church of Baton Rouge and they have been talking so bad about Catholics at said Church that I think I'll convert. Yeah - I could see that be very "common".
Yep. Very common. Thanks for your attention to this matter.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 6:16 pm to FooManChoo
I have no problem with your viewpoint, if that is your opinion.
I also have no problem with your incorrect statement that the Early Church was unsure how to interpret Christ calling Peter "Kepha" or the Rock. The Early Church considered Christ as a Rock, Faith as a Rock and also, Christ gave Simon Peter a new name, didn't he?
Wasn't Peter originally named Simon? Was Simon born with the name Peter/Rock? No? That's correct the answer is No. Christ renamed him.
How many different people are re-named by God in the Bible? Not many. One of them is Simon Peter.
You do accept that Jesus Christ renamed the man born with the name Simon, right?
Here's what Grok says: Peter's birth name was Simon (sometimes spelled as Simeon). He was also referred to as Simon bar Jonah or Simon son of John in the New Testament. Jesus later gave him the name Cephas (Aramaic for "rock") or Peter (from the Greek Petros, meaning "rock" or "stone"), signifying his role as a foundational figure in the Church.
I also have no problem with your incorrect statement that the Early Church was unsure how to interpret Christ calling Peter "Kepha" or the Rock. The Early Church considered Christ as a Rock, Faith as a Rock and also, Christ gave Simon Peter a new name, didn't he?
Wasn't Peter originally named Simon? Was Simon born with the name Peter/Rock? No? That's correct the answer is No. Christ renamed him.
How many different people are re-named by God in the Bible? Not many. One of them is Simon Peter.
You do accept that Jesus Christ renamed the man born with the name Simon, right?
Here's what Grok says: Peter's birth name was Simon (sometimes spelled as Simeon). He was also referred to as Simon bar Jonah or Simon son of John in the New Testament. Jesus later gave him the name Cephas (Aramaic for "rock") or Peter (from the Greek Petros, meaning "rock" or "stone"), signifying his role as a foundational figure in the Church.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 6:18 pm to Canon951
quote:
Peter is not the rock.
Except for the fact that Jesus Himself renamed Simon and gave him the name Kephas, which means Rock, not "pebble", but Rock.
Jesus renamed him. Right? Did God rename lots of people in the Bible? Or only a few? He renamed Jacob and gave him the name Israel. He renamed Simon.
God renamed people who were given very important things to accomplish in the future. The new name is a symbol of their new role in Church history.
This post was edited on 8/19/25 at 6:21 pm
Posted on 8/19/25 at 6:27 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
There are Protestants who believe Catholics aren't Christians and therefore will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, yet ignore the new covenant entirely when it comes to Jews because of a perverted interpretation of the New Testament.
Unless a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. That applies to protestant, catholic, jew, muslim, etc. Anyone who says the jews have a different path to God other than through Jesus Christ is a liar. I believe that while Israel is definitely out of covenant with the Lord right now that God still has a plan for them in the future. So although Israel in its current form is not in covenant with God, he will return at the 2nd coming when the petition him to be their savior.
Hosea 5:15
"I will return again to my place, until they acknowledge their guilt and seek my face, and in their distress earnestly seek me."
Matthew 23:37–39:
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! ... See, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord."
I believe this will be accomplished at the end of the 7 year tribulation. The church will have been raptured and God will deal exclusively with Israel during this time and at the end they will recognize that Jesus is in fact their Messiah and will petition him for their deliverance.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 6:31 pm to Champagne
Did you read any of the scriptures I provided? Jesus is clearly the Rock. He says he is. Peter says he is, Paul says he is. Come on man.
No one is saying that Peter wasnt a very important figure in the early church and arguably was Jesus' right hand man and head of the disciples. But to give any glory or honor to anyone other than Jesus is sinful. Jesus is Lord. He is the Alpha and the Omega, Author and Finisher of our faith. He will share his glory with no other.
No one is saying that Peter wasnt a very important figure in the early church and arguably was Jesus' right hand man and head of the disciples. But to give any glory or honor to anyone other than Jesus is sinful. Jesus is Lord. He is the Alpha and the Omega, Author and Finisher of our faith. He will share his glory with no other.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 6:31 pm to Champagne
quote:
I'm not at all upset over the fact that, as a whole, Protestants do not consider Catholics to be Christians and do not consider Catholics to be part of the Body of Christ, nor do they consider the Roman Catholic Church to be a Christian Church. I know this to be true because I have researched the issue for myself.
quote:
Neither side believes that the other has the right formula for Salvation, but, both sides are Christians.
Which is it?
It took me less than 5 seconds to find that Catholic website that proclaims protestants are not Christians. I know for a fact that some Catholics believe that and I know for a fact that some don't, so I don't go around claiming "as a whole" that one or the other is true.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 6:34 pm to Canon951
quote:
Did you read any of the scriptures I provided?
Jesus renamed Simon and gave him the new name Kephas, which means Rock.
Did Jesus rename Simon? Is that in the Bible or not?
This post was edited on 8/19/25 at 6:35 pm
Posted on 8/19/25 at 6:41 pm to Champagne
Petros = a stone, a small rock, a piece of rock
Petra = a large rock, bedrock, foundation
Jesus called Peter Petros and referred to "this rock" as Petra. Read my post above.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 6:44 pm to SkiUtah420
I’m not a Dispensationalist. Probably a Preterist. At least a partial one.
But, given all the Roman Catholic authors, commentators, apologists, theologians, and converts to Rome I read, listen to, and enjoy,
Dr. Taylor Marshall (and Gavin Ashenden) have become my least favorites. Dr. Marshall is a bit smug and preachy. He’s converted, made safe his soul and the souls of his family so he comes off as smug. “I’m right. All of you not RC are wrong.” He leaves the impression he’s content to pull the ladder up into the clubhouse, shut the door and throw things at potential converts below his treehouse.
Ashenden, like Marshall, a convert from Anglicanism, is often much the same. The difference is he can be making a point about cultural collapse and Christianity’s lack of leavening and he just can’t resist nowadays not taking a swipe at Protestants, many who are Anglicans, and potential converts.
They both need to be concerned with presenting the gospel of Jesus Christ and making a clear case why Roman Catholicism is superior.
But, given all the Roman Catholic authors, commentators, apologists, theologians, and converts to Rome I read, listen to, and enjoy,
Dr. Taylor Marshall (and Gavin Ashenden) have become my least favorites. Dr. Marshall is a bit smug and preachy. He’s converted, made safe his soul and the souls of his family so he comes off as smug. “I’m right. All of you not RC are wrong.” He leaves the impression he’s content to pull the ladder up into the clubhouse, shut the door and throw things at potential converts below his treehouse.
Ashenden, like Marshall, a convert from Anglicanism, is often much the same. The difference is he can be making a point about cultural collapse and Christianity’s lack of leavening and he just can’t resist nowadays not taking a swipe at Protestants, many who are Anglicans, and potential converts.
They both need to be concerned with presenting the gospel of Jesus Christ and making a clear case why Roman Catholicism is superior.
This post was edited on 8/19/25 at 11:02 pm
Posted on 8/19/25 at 6:45 pm to Flats
I asked Grok to tell us what the Catholic Catechism says about this issue. Grok's answer reflects what the published Catholic Catechism says about the issue of whether Catholics should consider Protestants to be "Christians". So, if you find anything on the internet that disagrees with the following, you can rest assured that what you found is not what the Catholic Church believes:
"The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) addresses the relationship between the Catholic Church and other Christian communities, including Protestants, in several key sections, particularly in the context of ecumenism and the nature of the Church. Here's a concise summary of what it says regarding whether Protestants are considered Christians:
"Common Baptism and Christian Identity: The Catechism acknowledges that Protestants, through their valid baptism, are incorporated into Christ and thus are rightly called Christians. Paragraph 818 states:
"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from the Reformation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."
"This means that Protestants, by virtue of their baptism "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," are recognized as Christians."
"Shared Elements of Faith: The Catechism notes that Protestant communities possess many elements of sanctification and truth, such as Sacred Scripture, faith in Christ, and baptism, which unite them to the Catholic Church, even if imperfectly (CCC 819). These shared elements affirm their Christian identity."
"Ecclesial Communities, Not Churches in the Full Sense: While recognizing Protestants as Christians, the Catechism distinguishes between Protestant communities and the Catholic Church. Paragraph 817 explains that non-Catholic Christian communities (including Protestant ones) are not considered "churches" in the proper sense from a Catholic perspective because they lack certain elements, such as the fullness of the sacraments (especially the Eucharist) and apostolic succession. However, this does not negate their members' status as Christians."
"Unity and Differences: The Catechism emphasizes the call for Christian unity, acknowledging that divisions among Christians (including between Catholics and Protestants) are a scandal and a wound to the Body of Christ (CCC 817-822). It encourages dialogue and mutual respect while recognizing differences in doctrine and practice."
"Summary
The Catholic Catechism clearly affirms that Protestants are Christians, primarily because of their valid baptism and faith in Christ. They are considered brothers and sisters in Christ, though their communities are seen as lacking the fullness of the Church as understood in Catholic theology. The tone is one of respect and a desire for unity, while acknowledging theological differences."
"The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) addresses the relationship between the Catholic Church and other Christian communities, including Protestants, in several key sections, particularly in the context of ecumenism and the nature of the Church. Here's a concise summary of what it says regarding whether Protestants are considered Christians:
"Common Baptism and Christian Identity: The Catechism acknowledges that Protestants, through their valid baptism, are incorporated into Christ and thus are rightly called Christians. Paragraph 818 states:
"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from the Reformation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."
"This means that Protestants, by virtue of their baptism "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," are recognized as Christians."
"Shared Elements of Faith: The Catechism notes that Protestant communities possess many elements of sanctification and truth, such as Sacred Scripture, faith in Christ, and baptism, which unite them to the Catholic Church, even if imperfectly (CCC 819). These shared elements affirm their Christian identity."
"Ecclesial Communities, Not Churches in the Full Sense: While recognizing Protestants as Christians, the Catechism distinguishes between Protestant communities and the Catholic Church. Paragraph 817 explains that non-Catholic Christian communities (including Protestant ones) are not considered "churches" in the proper sense from a Catholic perspective because they lack certain elements, such as the fullness of the sacraments (especially the Eucharist) and apostolic succession. However, this does not negate their members' status as Christians."
"Unity and Differences: The Catechism emphasizes the call for Christian unity, acknowledging that divisions among Christians (including between Catholics and Protestants) are a scandal and a wound to the Body of Christ (CCC 817-822). It encourages dialogue and mutual respect while recognizing differences in doctrine and practice."
"Summary
The Catholic Catechism clearly affirms that Protestants are Christians, primarily because of their valid baptism and faith in Christ. They are considered brothers and sisters in Christ, though their communities are seen as lacking the fullness of the Church as understood in Catholic theology. The tone is one of respect and a desire for unity, while acknowledging theological differences."
Posted on 8/19/25 at 6:48 pm to Canon951
quote:
Petros = a stone, a small rock, a piece of rock
Petra = a large rock, bedrock, foundation
Jesus called Peter Petros and referred to "this rock" as Petra. Read my post above.
Do you understand that Jesus did not speak Latin. Jesus did not speak Greek. Jesus spoke Aramaic. The Aramaic name that Jesus gave to Simon is Kephas, which means ROCK - a big ole ROCK. Not pebble. Not small rock or a piece of rock, but ROCK.
Kephas means Rock.
You do agree that Jesus while on the Earth spoke to the folks in the Aramaic language?
Here's what Grok says
"Yes, Jesus renamed Simon, calling him "Kephas" (also spelled "Cephas" in some translations). This event is described in the Gospel of John 1:42, where Jesus says to Simon, "You are Simon the son of John; you shall be called Cephas" (which is translated as Peter).
The name "Kephas" (or Cephas) comes from the Aramaic word kepa , meaning "rock" or "stone." In Greek, this is translated as Petros , which also means "rock" and is the origin of the name Peter. The renaming signifies Simon’s role as a foundational figure in the early Christian church, often interpreted as Jesus designating him as the "rock" upon which the church would be built (see Matthew 16:18).
The significance of the name varies across interpretations:
In Christian tradition, particularly in Catholicism, it emphasizes Peter’s primacy as the first pope and leader of the apostles.
In other contexts, it highlights his steadfastness or foundational role in spreading Jesus’ teachings." "
This post was edited on 8/19/25 at 6:52 pm
Posted on 8/19/25 at 6:50 pm to Champagne
quote:
I asked Grok to tell us what the Catholic Catechism says about this issue.
Why is Grok more reliable than the website I referenced? I keep hearing that all Catholics believe the same thing, but clearly you have differences of opinion just like other Christian denominations.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 6:57 pm to Flats
quote:
Why is Grok more reliable than the website I referenced? I keep hearing that all Catholics believe the same thing, but clearly you have differences of opinion just like other Christian denominations.
Did you miss the part where Grok tells you what the Roman Catholic Catechism says about this issue? If you find something on the internet that disagrees with what the Catechism says, then you may rest assured that the doctrine that disagrees with the Catechism is NOT what the Roman Catholic Church believes.
Roman Catholicism, all over the world, in every Church Parish, school, university and seminary, has but one single unified Doctrine, which is published and free for you to review. Anything that disagrees with the Catechism is NOT what the Catholic Church believes.
Here's a free online Catechism
LINK
Posted on 8/19/25 at 6:59 pm to Flats
quote:
I keep hearing that all Catholics believe the same thing,
If you meet a Catholic who believes something that disagrees with the Catechism, you may loudly correct them, tell them that they are wrong and refer them to the Catechism with an extremely haughty and smug air about yourself. In fact, you should slap them.
Don a top hat before you do this.
This post was edited on 8/19/25 at 7:00 pm
Posted on 8/19/25 at 7:02 pm to Champagne
quote:
Did you miss the part where Grok tells you what the Roman Catholic Catechism says about this issue?
Yes, I'm fully aware that there's an official Catholic Catechism, but you keep making claims about what individuals believe. There are Protestants who think Catholics can't be Christians and there are Catholics who think Protestants can't be Christians. I'm pretty sure you know this but you feel compelled to attempt to claim you know what Protestants believe "as a whole".
You don't.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 7:02 pm to Champagne
You trust Grok and I'll just stick to my bible. My faith is in Christ alone. I've provided numerous scriptures verifying that Jesus is the rock, cornerstone, foundation of which the entire church is built upon. Not sure what else can be said on the topic.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 7:03 pm to wackatimesthree
I support Israel(but not necessarily the government’s policies)because of my respect for the Jewish people and they are a democracy in a region where democracy is not the norm.
Posted on 8/19/25 at 7:09 pm to Snipe
quote:
The end times are not what you think.
Maybe. You may be right. I have a different interpretation of where we are in end times. Neither of us knows for sure obviously
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