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re: "Fiscally conservative but socially liberal"
Posted on 5/5/22 at 1:35 pm to Ex-Popcorn
Posted on 5/5/22 at 1:35 pm to Ex-Popcorn
quote:
This is the entire problem. 90% of people out there believe government exists to do the things they support.
This is exactly it and I'll take it a step further.
Once those people believe Government has addressed the thing or things that are important to them. Then Government can stop.
This post was edited on 5/5/22 at 1:35 pm
1
Posted on 5/5/22 at 1:38 pm to burger bearcat
quote:Just another way of saying "Do what you want, but don't ask me to pay for it."
"Fiscally conservative but socially liberal"
SoCons have a problem with the first clause, and Progs have a problem with the second.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 1:40 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Just another way of saying "Do what you want, but don't ask me to pay for it."
SoCons have a problem with the first clause,
Everybody except anarchists has a problem with the first clause, we just draw the lines in different places.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 1:47 pm to burger bearcat
You can be Pro-freedom Or Pro-low taxes.
I have Voted Libertarian before. It generally flows from a deep disbelief that the government can effectively implement the programs they take my taxes for (I lived In New Orleans where they definitely can’t). I would Probably be very liberal if I felt someone competent was running the show.
Conservatives made stuff like gay rights an issue by oppressing gays.
I have Voted Libertarian before. It generally flows from a deep disbelief that the government can effectively implement the programs they take my taxes for (I lived In New Orleans where they definitely can’t). I would Probably be very liberal if I felt someone competent was running the show.
Conservatives made stuff like gay rights an issue by oppressing gays.
This post was edited on 5/5/22 at 2:07 pm
Posted on 5/5/22 at 1:48 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
How about fiscally liberal but socially conservative?
That represents a significant portion of this board, and almost the entire state of Louisiana.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 1:49 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
My explanation, is you can't have it both ways. All the fiscal irresponsibility goes right along with the social irresponsibility. As a recovering libertarian myself, I have realized the flaws in this kind of thinking. Either you are pushing the culture your way, or the other side is pushing it their way, and it always comes with coat tails (in the form of a big federal government, spending, inflation, and taxes)
Welcome to adulthood.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 1:52 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
A state that is socially conservative in the sense that it reinforces socially conservative ideas - personal responsibility, merit, hard work, centrality of faith, etc. - is far more likely to successfully implement and sustain fiscally liberal measures with higher degrees of support and effectiveness.
So I guess this is where it's important to define social conservative.
You think it means personal responsibility and faith. Others think it means overbearing restrictions on freedom and liberty, such as drug laws and "blue lives matter".
I think concepts of personal responsibility tie in with fiscal conservatism. Drug laws and over policing do not.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 1:53 pm to Ex-Popcorn
quote:
Will you send me your bank account information and log in? I can send you a private email to get it if that's easier.
Let me know.
Is this an appeal to the golden rule? I wouldn't want my property infringed upon, so I shouldn't wish the infringement of another's property?
Posted on 5/5/22 at 1:54 pm to Pandy Fackler
quote:
Sure you can dumdum. People do every day.
Oh, I am fully aware that so called "moderate" types like to think they are superior because they can be apolitical and all "hey man, I just want low taxes, you do you, and I do me man" and make fun of people further to the right who do want a pro-family culture with a Biblical worldview (by the way, this doesn't mean being forced on by the state), but does mean the framework for how we create laws (which all governments do create laws) is based on Christian morality and Constitutional values.
I get it, it's easier to be that way. It makes life easier, you can get along with everyone and not ruffle any feathers. But the left has no problem imposing their worldview down everyone's throats, and the centrist/libertarian types have no interest in pushing back on their religous zealotry (which it absolutely is religious in nature). So they will let the social/cultural conservatives do it for them all while mocking them at the same time.
There is a reason why all the mid 20th century Communists (Frankfurt school, and Fabian Socialists) wanted to begin their long march by corrupting the culture. They knew exactly what they were doing.
Andrew Breitbart said it best: "Politics is downstream from culture." And I would take that one step further that "Communism is downstream from moral decay"
Posted on 5/5/22 at 1:54 pm to Pandy Fackler
quote:
This is the entire problem. 90% of people out there believe government exists to do the things they support.
I believe this.
Of course what I mostly support is being left the frick alone.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 1:56 pm to Chancellor
quote:
If you believe the SCOTUS should not overturn RvW or that there is a federal right to murder children hidden somewhere in the Constitution, that issues that aren't mentioned in the Constitution (murdering babies, marriage, etc.) are left to the states to decide for themselves (that pesky 10th Amendment), then stop calling yourself conservative. You're not.
I'm with you.
But we also have people calling themselves "conservatives" that want to use the power of government to restrict the rights of others. They are just as bad to me.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 1:57 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
but I think this particular combination is a major part of the rot in the conservative movement.
The rot in the conservative movement occurred when the William F. Buckley's and Irving Kristol's of the world turned the Republican Party from one of foreign policy non-intervention and sound monetary policy into an imperialist and fiscally irresponsible party that was virtually indistinguishable from its opponent.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 1:57 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
fiscally liberal but socially conservative
That defines most modern-era Republicans.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 1:59 pm to Flats
quote:
we just draw the lines in different places
How do you not see the problem with that quoted language? You draw your lines based on your own subjective belief of what is right and wrong. And then you believe government should impose those lines because you like them.
Other people disagree. How do you determine whose subjective opinion wins? Is it just a majority? Do you not see how dangerous that is? People's subjective values change. 60 years ago, everyone was in favor of no gay marriage. Now, most everyone is ok with it being allowed. You end up with flavor of the month legislation.
The question never has been where you draw the lines. Or where I draw the lines. The question is and always has been where does the role of government fit into drawing those lines.
It seems extreme in retrospect but Hitler was widely supported in Germany and believed they were the moral superiority.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 2:00 pm to Ross
quote:
Being fiscally "conservative" and socially "liberal" is really the only philosophically defensible position. It all ties to property rights. Government should exist only to defend property rights. You can't take the position, for example, that government doesn't have the right to take more from me in taxes (because "it's mine") while also taking the position that the government should ban marijuana. If it's mine, it's mine.
Finally... I'm starting to get some backup on this board.
My faith in humanity is returning!
Posted on 5/5/22 at 2:03 pm to tarzana
quote:
quote:
fiscally liberal but socially conservative
That defines most modern-era Republicans.
Obviously why Trump became so popular.
NOBODY pushed "social conservatism" like THAT DUDE!
Posted on 5/5/22 at 2:05 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
Finally... I'm starting to get some backup on this board.
My faith in humanity is returning!
I just don't frequent this board enough, but I definitely identify as some shade of libertarian. There are plenty of us out there
I think a lot of conservatives compromise and undermine their own beliefs of government corruption, ineptitude, and incompetence; as well as undermine their own desires for the government to "leave them alone" when they choose to put government suits and unelected bureaucrats in charge of mandating and enforcing behaviors between consenting parties that take place in private residences.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 2:05 pm to tarzana
quote:
fiscally liberal but socially conservative
That defines most modern-era Republicans.
I would argue this same equation has the inverse effect. Alot of the old school southern Democrats pre-Reagan or old rust belt blue collar union Democrats pre-Trump probably fit in this category. They are more likely to be religious and want a moral, decent culture with values. But they also want financial support from the government. But the problem is once they allow for this big bloated monstrosity of a government, it has a tendency to have a mind of its own and has to find ways to grow and feed itself. So it taps into the culture and wants to create a subservient electorate that will continue to feed and grow the monster even more.
This post was edited on 5/5/22 at 2:06 pm
Posted on 5/5/22 at 2:07 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
"Fiscally conservative but socially liberal"
I will take what is the opposite of an African American for $5000, Alex.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 2:08 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
How about fiscally liberal but socially conservative?
I believe that's called the Catholic Church.
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