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re: Is education in this country really all that bad?
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:27 pm to Al Bundy Bulldog
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:27 pm to Al Bundy Bulldog
quote:
Do Japanese, German or any European countries use merit pay for teachers? Heck, Im not even sure private K-12 schools in the US do so unless they name someone a dept Chair or lead teacher if they are top notch at what they do.
There are some public schools in Mississippi that are testing a merit based pay program. Its school specific rather than teacher specific, but its a start.
I think it works like this: If your school is an "A" school, then the school's teachers divide $100 per student and a "B" school divides $50 per student.
A school with 100 teachers and 1200 students that is an A school would get an extra $1200 a year over the teachers at a C school. But all teachers get the $800 or so raise per year of service.
And of course the low performing schools are going bat shite crazy over this plan. In fact, today in the MS legislature, a plan is being presented that gives more money to poor districts and takes it away from rich districts.
This post was edited on 1/17/17 at 2:30 pm
0
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:27 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
there is really only a problem with Black and Hispanic minority groups
Have you ever been to the rural south?
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:27 pm to CoachChappy
quote:
The only problem with merit based pay is the premise that you can plant cotton and pick corn.
It's not merit based. See my post above. It's about LOTS of applicants wanting to get positions in high paying schools.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:28 pm to PrimeTime Money
Primary: Yes
University: No, Best in the world.
University: No, Best in the world.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:31 pm to Zach
quote:
the children are very smart due to IQ correlations of wealth and children.
I'll try to find the article, but this is actually a myth. High IQ's are fairly evenly distributed in children across all income levels. Wealthy kids are perceived to have higher IQ's because they have a stronger support system, their schools have better standardized test scores, and generally their parents have connections to better colleges allowing them easier entry to those colleges.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:32 pm to PrimeTime Money
Parents in poor neighborhoods who care and can afford it send their kids to catholic/private schools. They do a very good job under the circumstances.
The public schools in extremely poor areas are a joke. There is very little learning going on. The students coming out are ill prepared for any type of well paying job.
The politicians just give lip service to problem. They are more concerned about the powerful teachers union.
The public schools in extremely poor areas are a joke. There is very little learning going on. The students coming out are ill prepared for any type of well paying job.
The politicians just give lip service to problem. They are more concerned about the powerful teachers union.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:35 pm to The Spleen
quote:
I'll try to find the article, but this is actually a myth.
No, it's not a myth. Here is the article I read on it:
It's over 700 pages but if you skip Sec. III (the math tables) it's only 500.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:36 pm to Tigerdev
quote:Not all White people are smart or score well on tests.
Have you ever been to the rural south?
The point is that when you compare all White students to all Black students and all Hispanic students, the White students outperform the Black and Hispanic students by a wide margin.
The Asian students outperform the Whites.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:36 pm to Zach
quote:
The only problem with merit based pay is the premise that you can plant cotton and pick corn.
It's not merit based. See my post above. It's about LOTS of applicants wanting to get positions in high paying schools.
Sorry, I was trying to respond to someone else who had responded to you about merit based pay.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:37 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
We've all heard the horror stories of inner city schools. What really can be done? Do the issues in those schools not start at home?
It is not the Asian's fault that black kids drop out of High School at such a high rate.
As a matter of fact, if black schools are so bad then the graduation rate should be higher since logically if they don't teach anything then they aren't testing on anything either.
If you really want to know what the difference is between Asian, White, Hispanic, and Black education is...
Look at the difference between the % of two parent homes and single parent homes of the races.
Highest to lowest 2 parent homes.
Asian
White
Hispanic
Black
It is a cultural problem not a race problem.
Studies have shown that the 3 greatest identifiers for not remaining lifetime poor in the US are...
Graduate High School
Don't have children out of wedlock
Get a Job
People who make just those 3 decisions in life move in to the middle class regardless of other choices.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:39 pm to PrimeTime Money
if you control for wealth and some other factors, we're probably top 10 ... and many european countries (and most asian countries) do not test all groups of students - atrisk or special ed kids ... the testing is substantially different between them and us ... doesn't mean the current system is without imperfections, esp in hiring ...
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:42 pm to PrimeTime Money
So are you intentionally ignoring the correlation between performance and economic standing to score points with the board's usual suspects or do you just need educating?
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:43 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Is education in this country really all that bad?
quote:
the children are very smart due to IQ correlations of wealth and children.
I'll try to find the article, but this is actually a myth. High IQ's are fairly evenly distributed in children across all income levels. Wealthy kids are perceived to have higher IQ's because they have a stronger support system, their schools have better standardized test scores, and generally their parents have connections to better colleges allowing them easier entry to those colleges.
children of wealthy parents have probably heard/read several million more words by their teens (probably the biggest reason they excel on school tests) ... they've had better nutrition, on average, at a younger age ... and they've had expectations placed on them ... iq is not in any way evenly distributed across income levels ...
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:43 pm to Zach
I'm familiar with the Bell Curve, and don't disagree with most of its premise.
In the article I'm talking about, a college(I think) created a database over 2 or 3 years of every student that scored over a certain score on the SAT. What they found for those years was the distribution was pretty even across all income levels.
In the article I'm talking about, a college(I think) created a database over 2 or 3 years of every student that scored over a certain score on the SAT. What they found for those years was the distribution was pretty even across all income levels.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:44 pm to PrimeTime Money
In many inner cities and in some states it is pretty damn bad . See Louisiana and Mississippi for starts
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:47 pm to chity
quote:
The politicians just give lip service to problem. They are more concerned about the powerful teachers union.
Are the parents involved?
I have heard of Teacher-Parent nights where only a handful of parents showed up.
What the hell are the teachers, the administrators and the politicians supposed to do if parents can't even show up for parent- teacher night? What kind of miracles can take place?
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:52 pm to Zach
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:52 pm to PrimeTime Money
Its true that certain groups hold our numbers back and make us look bad. but that said I am still disappointed in the system. I hate the idea of homework, I hate the structure of a school day and I hate that we are taught things from a certain world view. i hate how school is a business and i hate how the entire system is setup to push people into college or completely fail. Schools are more concerned with having kids regurgitate info than learn.
The money involved in schools are disgusting too. Not just overpriced books but the bullshite online course subscriptions, clickers and other unnecessary crap. its one big Ponzi scheme and the student loans are being taken advantage of. In theory student loans are great but they had many unintentional consequences. Banks loan student, student have more money so schools raise tuition, loans get bigger, book companies see kids with more money and raise prices of the books, force online services. banks loan more, college housing sees student with more money and build huge cheaply made apartment complex with insane prices. banks loan more money. its one big shitty bubble and guess what? when it pops... the government will foot the bill, because student loans and education are important and the children are the future! we cant let them be responsible for this! meanwhile those bank CEOs get 100million dollar cash bonuses.
The money involved in schools are disgusting too. Not just overpriced books but the bullshite online course subscriptions, clickers and other unnecessary crap. its one big Ponzi scheme and the student loans are being taken advantage of. In theory student loans are great but they had many unintentional consequences. Banks loan student, student have more money so schools raise tuition, loans get bigger, book companies see kids with more money and raise prices of the books, force online services. banks loan more, college housing sees student with more money and build huge cheaply made apartment complex with insane prices. banks loan more money. its one big shitty bubble and guess what? when it pops... the government will foot the bill, because student loans and education are important and the children are the future! we cant let them be responsible for this! meanwhile those bank CEOs get 100million dollar cash bonuses.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 2:55 pm to PrimeTime Money
If you had to hire young people coming out of HS these days, you wouldn't have to ask.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:00 pm to Tigerdev
quote:No, you missed my point. My point was that it seems the schools teach kids just fine as Asians and Whites do just fine in school.
So are you intentionally ignoring the correlation between performance and economic standing to score points with the board's usual suspects or do you just need educating?
Blacks and Hispanics don't do well relatively speaking. I didn't offer any specific reasons why other than that maybe it's the students and not the schools. But I never said WHY the Black and Hispanic students do not do as well. I left that up to debate. My only point was that maybe there isn't anything we can do to make the schools better that would help. Maybe it's just on the students.
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