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Started By
Message
re: SECNAV is either too stupid or naive to be SECNAV
Posted on 4/6/20 at 4:33 pm to Royal Tiger Fan
Posted on 4/6/20 at 4:33 pm to Royal Tiger Fan
Great - insight! Thanks for your input
How did y’all have resources to test for the rona?
How did y’all have resources to test for the rona?
1
Posted on 4/6/20 at 4:37 pm to Royal Tiger Fan
Royal Tiger Fan
Check WWII history and pre war history, ask Billy Mitchell what happens.
Did Billy a world of good to get the CGM long after he dead.
In response to the Navy's first helium-filled rigid airship Shenandoah crashing in a storm in September 1925, killing 14 of the crew, and the loss of three seaplanes on a flight from the West Coast to Hawaii, Mitchell issued a statement accusing senior leaders in the Army and Navy of incompetence and "almost treasonable administration of the national defense." In October 1925, a charge with eight specifications was proffered against Mitchell on the direct order of President Calvin Coolidge, accusing him of violation of the 96th Article of War, an omnibus article that Mitchell's chief counsel, Congressman Frank Reid, declared to be "unconstitutional" as a violation of free speech. The court martial began in early November and lasted for seven weeks.
Now what if Trump demanded a count martial?
Check WWII history and pre war history, ask Billy Mitchell what happens.
Did Billy a world of good to get the CGM long after he dead.
In response to the Navy's first helium-filled rigid airship Shenandoah crashing in a storm in September 1925, killing 14 of the crew, and the loss of three seaplanes on a flight from the West Coast to Hawaii, Mitchell issued a statement accusing senior leaders in the Army and Navy of incompetence and "almost treasonable administration of the national defense." In October 1925, a charge with eight specifications was proffered against Mitchell on the direct order of President Calvin Coolidge, accusing him of violation of the 96th Article of War, an omnibus article that Mitchell's chief counsel, Congressman Frank Reid, declared to be "unconstitutional" as a violation of free speech. The court martial began in early November and lasted for seven weeks.
Now what if Trump demanded a count martial?
Posted on 4/6/20 at 4:38 pm to Royal Tiger Fan
quote:
SECNAV giving the CO his cell was outside the chain of command - and would have put the CO in a peculiar spot with at least 5 senior flag staffs.
So, you're saying there is nothing SECNAV could have done to get through this particular O-6's skull that he was listening and that help was on the way?
Good to know.
quote:
4. The crew loved Crozier because he (even before this) put their best interest at heart.
Overidentification with the men is a direct path to not being a commander. The ship's CMC can afford that, but not the commander. Mission first.
Officers should be the calming presence, particularly under fire.
I'm not diminishing the stress you fellas are going through. Godspeed and best of luck.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 4:38 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
An aircraft carrier captain was fired.
As he should have been. You don't take your whinney arse bitch out the chain of command and you damn sure don't make public the combat readiness of your crew. FIRED, he should have court-martialed.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 4:39 pm to Royal Tiger Fan
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/2/21 at 5:02 am
Posted on 4/6/20 at 4:46 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
Wait you are on TR right now?
Holy crap.
Also I'm just now realizing SECNAV came to the ship. I thought it was a pre-recorded message played over the system.
Yep still on the ship. Awaiting to leave but you have to get your test result first.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 4:47 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
In putting myself in Modly's shoes, I would have relieved him. I don't think CNO disagreed with the decision part, but merely the speed.
I'm curious what CNO thinks of today's speech to the crew.
We will likely never know, which is how it is supposed to be, of course.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 4:47 pm to fatheadgator
quote:
Great - insight! Thanks for your input
How did y’all have resources to test for the rona?
They are flying in swabs to test and sending it off to various places for the results. This started last thursday
Posted on 4/6/20 at 4:52 pm to LSUFanHouston
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/2/21 at 5:00 am
Posted on 4/6/20 at 4:53 pm to aubiecat
quote:
Apparently you don't know shite about the military chain of command. Good or bad you have to follow it or suffer the consequences.
Exactly. Now if you think a superior is wrong or operating dangerously you can break it. But you better have your shite together and have all your ducks in a row and their is a certain way to do it. You don't do what this Captain did. His superior was right down the hall on the same ship and he didn't go to him. He went around and over him and did it in a way that would surely get leaked to the media. He will be damn lucky if he isn't brought up on court martial charges. Matter of fact I fully expect him to.
This post was edited on 4/6/20 at 4:53 pm
Posted on 4/6/20 at 4:54 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
So, you're saying there is nothing SECNAV could have done to get through this particular O-6's skull that he was listening and that help was on the way?
Good to know.
I'm telling you that despite the SECNAV telling the Skipper on the 24th or 25th he had a direct line to his office, on the 30th the Skipper was told there was no help coming. If the Skipper would have been told by his uniformed superiors that he had to deal with the situation as is, picking up the phone to call SECNAV would have been going outside the chain of command.
quote:
Overidentification with the men is a direct path to not being a commander. The ship's CMC can afford that, but not the commander. Mission first.
Officers should be the calming presence, particularly under fire.
I'm not diminishing the stress you fellas are going through. Godspeed and best of luck.
The mission had been pause the moment we got the first positive results. We immediately stop flying and made our way towards Guam. The new mission was the health of the crew. He put that mission first. And exact quote from the All hands email: "As we prepare to execute quarantine, this will become our main mission- getting healthy. Treat it with the same level of professionalism and dedication that we use to execute all other missions. There is no margin for error."
Posted on 4/6/20 at 4:56 pm to Ponchy Tiger
quote:
His superior was right down the hall on the same ship and he didn't go to him. He went around and over him and did it in a way that would surely get leaked to the media. He will be damn lucky if he isn't brought up on court martial charges. Matter of fact I fully expect him to.
Not true. I can assure his superior knew.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 4:59 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
Remarks to the ship. Calls the CPT naive or stupid around 1:46, you can hear someone say “what the frick”
If what the SecNav says is true I have absolutely no problem with him relieving him and have a whole heck of a lot more respect for SecNav forgoing to the ship and talking to the crew via the 1-MC. I may have said some things differently but he stood his ground and explain the reason for his decision.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:01 pm to Royal Tiger Fan
quote:
I'm telling you that despite the SECNAV telling the Skipper on the 24th or 25th he had a direct line to his office, on the 30th the Skipper was told there was no help coming.
So you are claiming the SECNAV was lying when he told the crew that Captain Crozier told him that Sunday the TR was good, before shooting off the e-mail Sunday night?
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:11 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
And it's the SECNAV who is making this an issue?
Imagine if he had given a clear, straightforward, non-moronic speech? So yeah, he did make this an issue by being stupid.
The ship's commander just broke communications protocol. Imagine if he was giving this speech as if it were going to be recorded and played for someone outside of the audience? What a novel thought.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:12 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Mission first.
The mission all across the military has been COVID. The military has ceased all movement conus and oconus. It’s a shite show from the highest levels to the lowest levels with no guidance, direction, and decision making. Quit burying your head in the sand due to your political affiliation.
quote:
Over identification with the men is a direct path to not being a commander. The ship's CMC can afford that, but not the commander.
What are you talking about? Putting your men’s best interest at heart doesn’t equal overidebtification. You should probably read a history book or two.
This post was edited on 4/6/20 at 5:51 pm
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:13 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
So you are claiming the SECNAV was lying when he told the crew that Captain Crozier told him that Sunday the TR was good, before shooting off the e-mail Sunday night?
What I'm claiming is at the time the Crozier spoke to SECNAV sunday there was a plan being discussed. We were briefed on it days prior and begun preps. this was a locally developed plan. So Crozier mostly waved off SECNAV because he (the CO) was working this plan, and 2. any visit by a senior person is disruptive to an extent. However late Monday (which was still Sunday in the states) We (the officers) were told that plan was denied and there was no help coming. The CO and other commanders were told a couple of hours before that info for to us. That's when he wrote the letter, when the hope he had (which made him tell SECNAV he was good) was denied by senior fleet staffs.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:13 pm to RollTide1987
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/6/20 at 5:15 pm
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:24 pm to Royal Tiger Fan
quote:
I'm telling you that despite the SECNAV telling the Skipper on the 24th or 25th he had a direct line to his office, on the 30th the Skipper was told there was no help coming.
I don't believe you, with all due respect.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:26 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
What are you talking about?
If you can't bear the thought of losing your men, you can't command them in combat.
Period.
quote:
Putting your men’s best interest at heart doesn’t equal overidebtification.
If those concerns cause you to ignore basics like operational security, then it is.
quote:
You should probably read a history book or two.
I don't know you, sir, but I've probably forgotten more about military history than you can imagine.
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