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re: This is Biden’s failure, undoubtedly
Posted on 8/16/21 at 7:17 am to fjlee90
Posted on 8/16/21 at 7:17 am to fjlee90
1. THIS IS BIDENS FAULT. Trumps plan was sealed with a promise that if the Taliban tries to overthrow the government he will order USAF to conduct assassination bombings on Taliban leadership. Just the way he turned Iran’s #2 in command Soleimani into a pile of pico de Gallo! Biden is a spineless left wing zealot who has zero backbone whatsoever.
0
Posted on 8/16/21 at 7:18 am to DerekPope
quote:
look, youre being civil, I want to show you the same respect, but it pretty obviously didnt, right? it got some out, maybe most, theres no list that I know of, but a lot was pretty clearly left behind, including (according to donald) 2,000 troops
Due to the election the remaining 2k and equipment fell to the new administration.
quote:
which is also bullshite, the way to end the endless war was to hunt them the frick down, not give them what they want. no one ever did that, neither party, and I dont know why. theres no explanation good enough for that.
packing up and leaving made it all for nothing.
I won't disagree with this. We decided very early on that this war would not annihilate the Taliban and Taliban adjacent assets.
Packing up and leaving is an admission of failure by top military brass and 4 presidential administrations.
Staying for another 500 years wouldn't change that. The appropriate strategy is peace through strength. There are enough American military assets in the region to Solemani any terrorist.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 7:25 am to fjlee90
First, I seriously doubt that this is the plan Trump would have used. The first thing Raping Joe did was to undo everything Trump did because of a severe case of TDS.
Second, ANY plan devised by Trump would have worked simply because the Taliban would have feared that if they took one f*cking step out of line, Trump would have turned around and bombed those cave dwellers back into the f*cking stone age.
They also knew that Biden wouldn't do a f*cking thing other than ask them nicely to "behave," try to bribe them with billions of dollars, and, IF ALL THAT DIDN'T WORK he would just ask them nicely not to misgender our troops as they were surrendering and retreating.
Second, ANY plan devised by Trump would have worked simply because the Taliban would have feared that if they took one f*cking step out of line, Trump would have turned around and bombed those cave dwellers back into the f*cking stone age.
They also knew that Biden wouldn't do a f*cking thing other than ask them nicely to "behave," try to bribe them with billions of dollars, and, IF ALL THAT DIDN'T WORK he would just ask them nicely not to misgender our troops as they were surrendering and retreating.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 7:34 am to fjlee90
Joe Biden was in the US Senate for how many decades? He sat on the foreign relations committee. Then he was VP under Obama for 8 years.
He fancies himself a guru on all things Afghanistan .
This is wholly on Joe & his administration.
Period.
He fancies himself a guru on all things Afghanistan .
This is wholly on Joe & his administration.
Period.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 7:37 am to DerekPope
quote:
both sides agree on this, both sides would have supported that, and neither side did it. its disappointing.
The bipartisan drive for money overrides pesky, trifling concerns like "victory", "security", etc.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 7:38 am to MMauler
quote:
Second, ANY plan devised by Trump would have worked simply because the Taliban would have feared that if they took one f*cking step out of line, Trump would have turned around and bombed those cave dwellers back into the f*cking stone age.
But they did step out of line right after the Doha Agreement, and were likely in violation of that agreement during negotiations. Their weren't serious reprisals. I'm sure Trump could have done a better withdrawal than this, but negotiating directly with the Taliban was a mistake.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 7:38 am to MMauler
quote:
Second, ANY plan devised by Trump would have worked simply because the Taliban would have feared that if they took one f*cking step out of line, Trump would have turned around and bombed those cave dwellers back into the f*cking stone age.
This is exactly the reason North Vietnam waited until Nixon was gone to invade. Nixon kept providing air support for the ARVN and that was instrumental through the 1973 campaign, even without U.S. maneuver battalions in the effort.
They knew they could push Ford and the post-Nixon Congress, which was filled by cowards and traitors of both parties.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 7:41 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
I'm sure Trump could have done a better withdrawal than this, but negotiating directly with the Taliban was a mistake.
All 4 Post-9/11 Presidents negotiated with the Taliban.
quote:
Their weren't serious reprisals.
I think everyone knows that Trump would have been tougher on them in 2021 than Biden has been. I mean, I agree we don't know if it would have made a difference, but just using the Syria and Iraq examples, certainly Trump would have endorsed wider and greater kinetic actions.
Biden is probably happy with the Taliban's COVID response, right?
Posted on 8/16/21 at 7:52 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
All 4 Post-9/11 Presidents negotiated with the Taliban.
But not including the Afghan government in the talks made the Taliban's duplicity all the more apparent. Tri-lateral talks would have taken longer though.
Read the text of the agreement. It seems like some of the stipulations make sense only if the US thought the Taliban was going to eventually take over. And it was likely that the Taliban was never in compliance with Part Two of the agreement.
quote:
Biden is probably happy with the Taliban's COVID response, right?
Lol, you read my addendum to that, right?
This post was edited on 8/16/21 at 7:53 am
Posted on 8/16/21 at 7:53 am to Paddyshack
quote:
We all wanted to be out of Afghan. Its been 20 years! We had a plan.
You're joking, right?
A 2 decade conflict has no one in particular to blame. It's a conflict that involved multiple administrations, multiple mistakes, and trillions of dollars in spending approved by both sides of the political aisle.
If I recall, it was a Republican who got us into Afghanistan in the first place. So anyone saying one specific individual is to blame is doing it to score political points rather than actually considering it as a complex issue.
Both sides of the aisle share blame for the crisis.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 7:57 am to DangerousWafer
quote:
You're joking, right?
A 2 decade conflict has no one in particular to blame. It's a conflict that involved multiple administrations, multiple mistakes, and trillions of dollars in spending approved by both sides of the political aisle.
If I recall, it was a Republican who got us into Afghanistan in the first place. So anyone saying one specific individual is to blame is doing it to score political points rather than actually considering it as a complex issue.
Both sides of the aisle share blame for the crisis.
You're lumping the exit strategy(which is the subject) into the entire conflict(which no one is talking about) just to try and spread out the blame.
No one is placing 20 years worth of blame on just Biden. We're blaming him the the shitshow that is the last week.
but since you're shifting conversation to the 20 year conflict.....Biden held significant foreign policy control for nearly 9 of those 20 years so he ABSOLUTELY holds more blame than anyone else. ;)
Posted on 8/16/21 at 8:16 am to pankReb
quote:
but since you're shifting conversation to the 20 year conflict.....Biden held significant foreign policy control for nearly 9 of those 20 years so he ABSOLUTELY holds more blame than anyone else.
Plenty of blame to go around fellas.
I refuse to be partisan about it. That said, Biden is the sole owner of this shite show. Even worse is Kamala now saying she's "focusing on Haiti" at the moment.
What an absolute failure of leadership.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 8:16 am to pankReb
quote:
You're lumping the exit strategy(which is the subject) into the entire conflict(which no one is talking about) just to try and spread out the blame.
My point is that withdrawing was always going to be a shite show.
You can't analyze the withdrawal while ignoring the reasons we got into the conflict. It does a disservice to an incredibly complex issue.
I think withdrawing is a mistake and one that was always going to end up like this. The Afghan army was always going to fall (very few believed in the 'cause' because Afghanistan is a coalition of disparate tribes with very little in common) without US backing.
I blame Trump for negotiating a withdrawal with the Taliban and I blame Biden for honoring the withdrawal. The Afghan army wasn't even involved in the 2020 Doha Agreement for goodness sake.
quote:
but since you're shifting conversation to the 20 year conflict.....Biden held significant foreign policy control for nearly 9 of those 20 years so he ABSOLUTELY holds more blame than anyone else. ;)
Does he? The vice-president doesn't really have much political responsibility. It was well-reported that Obama never really listened to Biden on foreign policy decisions.
Trump also had control for 4 of those years and one who brokered the deal to withdraw in the first place. If we want to examine 20 years of foreign policy failure, you can't really ignore the administration that brokered a deal with the Taliban ;)
I think Biden's biggest mistake isn't the withdrawal but the fact that we're withdrawing in the first place. He gave in to political cowardice when anyone on the ground would tell you that the Afghan army has no loyalty to the cause or America.
This post was edited on 8/16/21 at 8:19 am
Posted on 8/16/21 at 8:40 am to DangerousWafer
quote:
If I recall, it was a Republican who got us into Afghanistan in the first place. So anyone saying one specific individual is to blame is doing it to score political points rather than actually considering it as a complex issue.
Both sides of the aisle share blame for the crisis.
As always, you miss the point. Of course it was Bush who put us there. You think I dont have the same amount of contempt for the Bushes as I do for the Clintons and Obamas? This transcends politics. It is no longer Democrat vs Republican. It is American vs anti-American. You may wanna figure out which side you are on.
This shitstorm in its current condition is 10000% on Sleepy.
This post was edited on 8/16/21 at 8:41 am
Posted on 8/16/21 at 8:45 am to EthanL
quote:
This is definitely Biden’s plan. And it has failed
Any way you slice it. Should be no down votes to your statement, but liberals don't like the truth or things that hurt their little feelings.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 8:50 am to DangerousWafer
quote:
Does he? The vice-president doesn't really have much political responsibility. It was well-reported that Obama never really listened to Biden on foreign policy decisions.
Was he that incompetent?
Why was he put at the forefront of the Ukrainian policy if that was the case? Smells like an excuse.
quote:
I blame Trump for negotiating a withdrawal with the Taliban and I blame Biden for honoring the withdrawal. The Afghan army wasn't even involved in the 2020 Doha Agreement for goodness sake
Can you blame him lol? After what happened, it is very obvious that no power lies with the 'Afghan army'. I don't care for the Trump deal, but if it got all American assets out without the shite show we are seeing today, it is a win for the American people.
quote:
If we want to examine 20 years of foreign policy failure, you can't really ignore the administration that brokered a deal with the Taliban
Every administration going back to the Bush administration has had dealings with the Taliban. Come on now...
quote:
I think Biden's biggest mistake isn't the withdrawal but the fact that we're withdrawing in the first place
There it is. You work for Raytheon or Lockheed?
Posted on 8/16/21 at 9:19 am to fjlee90
LINK - Brietbart
Biden Prioritized LGBT Agenda in Afghanistan as Terrorists Took Over
While Afghanistan was falling to Taliban terrorists, the Biden White House prioritized the LGBT agenda in foreign policy, flying the rainbow flag above the U.S. Embassy in Kabul to mark Pride Month.
Biden Prioritized LGBT Agenda in Afghanistan as Terrorists Took Over
While Afghanistan was falling to Taliban terrorists, the Biden White House prioritized the LGBT agenda in foreign policy, flying the rainbow flag above the U.S. Embassy in Kabul to mark Pride Month.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 9:20 am to remaster916
quote:
How could the US handle this better?
Ok, how could we have handled it any worse?
Posted on 8/16/21 at 9:23 am to fjlee90
We'll see how the Propaganda machine messages this situation. I'd bet my money on Biden being rehabilitated. The message will be that "he cleaned up Trump's A-ghan mess by being tough and decisive. Joe saved lives that Trump endangered."
Let's not jump to conclusions WRT to the reality of how this will be perceived by this highly Indoctrinated population.
Let's not jump to conclusions WRT to the reality of how this will be perceived by this highly Indoctrinated population.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 9:26 am to DangerousWafer
quote:LOL
My point is that withdrawing was always going to be a shite show.
quote:Why not?
You can't analyze the withdrawal while ignoring the reasons we got into the conflict
The Afghan army was always going to fall (very few believed in the 'cause' because Afghanistan is a coalition of disparate tribes with very little in common) without US backing. So what, has nothing to do with a lack of planning by the Turnip in chief.
quote:No wonder you voted for him.
The vice-president doesn't really have much political responsibility. It was well-reported that Obama never really listened to Biden on foreign policy decisions.
quote:Why didn't the greatest foreign policy man in Biden work on it, no plan.
Trump also had control for 4 of those years and one who brokered the deal to withdraw in the first place
quote:This is simply an idiotic statement.
I think Biden's biggest mistake isn't the withdrawal but the fact that we're withdrawing in the first place. He gave in to political cowardice when anyone on the ground would tell you that the Afghan army has no loyalty to the cause or America
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