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Started By
Message
re: Ukraine just bombed Russia again
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:11 pm to OBReb6
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:11 pm to OBReb6
quote:
quote:
That promise was made in a conversation between two diplomats. It was never put on paper and signed by anyone.
True. But our highest officials were entirely aware of the ramifications of pushing for NATO expansion going back to at least 2008
quote:
1. (C) Summary. Following a muted first reaction to Ukraine's intent to seek a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) at the Bucharest summit (ref A), Foreign Minister Lavrov and other senior officials have reiterated strong opposition, stressing that Russia would view further eastward expansion as a potential military threat. NATO enlargement, particularly to Ukraine, remains "an emotional and neuralgic" issue for Russia, but strategic policy considerations also underlie strong opposition to NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia. In Ukraine, these include fears that the issue could potentially split the country in two, leading to violence or even, some claim, civil war, which would force Russia to decide whether to intervene. Additionally, the GOR and experts continue to claim that Ukrainian NATO membership would have a major impact on Russia's defense industry, Russian-Ukrainian family connections, and bilateral relations generally. In Georgia, the GOR fears continued instability and "provocative acts" in the separatist regions. End summary.
quote:
5. (C) Ukraine and Georgia's NATO aspirations not only touch a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does Russia perceive encirclement, and efforts to undermine Russia's influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face.
-William J. Burns
Nyet means nyet
I’d love to read your rationalization of this
What gives Russia the right to say what Ukraine, Georgia, Estonia, or any of the former USSR countries do? As long as Russian territory is not violated then it has no justification for its claims of being under threat.
2
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:12 pm to DatNolaClap
You got triggered by someone calling someone else a weak beta.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:12 pm to WeeWee
quote:
What gives Russia the right to say what Ukraine,
What gives the US the right to direct their war
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:13 pm to DatNolaClap
quote:
Anybody who calls someone a weak beta may have to look at themself in the mirror and have a tough conversation. You’re basically the poster boy for that, are you not?
I think most of us are fed up with this bullshite and push towards a war that can really escalate into something bad.
Maybe it's the Ukraine bros that need the mirror time.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:13 pm to TS1926
quote:
Ukraine's sons would not have to fight if Putin did not send Russia's sons into Ukraine.
You do not have a clue man.
Yes I do. One of my best friends is from Ukraine and is fighting over there as we speak.
quote:
One of “Ukraine’s sons” was my wife’s cousin.
My condolence's to your wife's family.
quote:
He died in this useless and tragic war. You know who they hate? Zelenski.
I don't believe you. Why would they hate the guy defending their country and not the guy invading their country?
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:14 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Yes I do. One of my best friends is from Ukraine
go join him.
thats where your loyalty is. Its not with the USA, you want us dragged in..
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:14 pm to WeeWee
Our tech must be decent.
Russia doesn't seem to be stopping them.
Russia doesn't seem to be stopping them.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:15 pm to WeeWee
quote:
I don't believe you. Why would they hate the guy defending their country and not the guy invading their country?
I don’t believe you that you don’t believe it.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:15 pm to WeeWee
It’s ok. Pres Joe Biden and VP Harris are standing in the situation room at the ready!
Wait what?
Oh they’re half a world away on vacation?
Well that’s probably for the best.
Wait what?
Oh they’re half a world away on vacation?
Well that’s probably for the best.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:15 pm to WeeWee
quote:
What gives Russia the right to say what Ukraine, Georgia, Estonia, or any of the former USSR countries do? As long as Russian territory is not violated then it has no justification for its claims of being under threat.
What gives us the right of the Monroe doctrine?
I don’t really know or care what the “rights” are, I just know that our officials knew this would happen, and did it anyway. So what’s the excuse? It’s right there in writing
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:15 pm to BluegrassCardinal
quote:
Maybe it's the Ukraine bros that need the mirror time.
World class pussies.
They push for war, but dont volunteer. Hell, even some reddit trannies went over there to fight.
Reddit trannies are more manly than our zelensky bros.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:15 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
What gives Russia the right to say what Ukraine,
What gives the US the right to direct their war
We are not directing their war. We are saying what they can and cannot use the aid that they got from us for. Are you suggesting that we should have never put restrictions on the aid that we gave to them but instead let them use it how they saw fit? If that is the case then we are in agreement.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:16 pm to Auburn1968
quote:
With our urging and promise along with that the UK and much of Western Europe, Ukraine agreed to give up their nukes in exchange for our guarantee of their continued independence.
And assurances were also made by Secretary of State James Baker to Russia that after the reunification of Germany, NATO would not expand further eastward. President Bush likewise had earlier assured Gorbachev during the December 1989 Malta summit that the West had no desire to expand into Eastern Europe.
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:16 pm to TS1926
quote:
I'm not aware of a stipulation but it was Gorbachev's understanding there would be no expansion of NATO and especially against the borders of the
I'm confused why you invoked the NATO Founding Act then, as it has specific language stating has no say in what NATO decides to do.
quote:
Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woernerssian Federation
The declassified cables and conversations between Clinton and Yeltsin also show that those assurances meant as much to the US as the assurances of respecting Ukrainian sovereignty did to the Russians. The three themes of those cables was the intractability of the ABM Treaty, NATO expansion and European Security. None were solved by the beginning of Bush's tenure, and the ABM issue, which Putin himself cited at Munich in 2007, solved itself.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:16 pm to WeeWee
Why did Biden have to give permission to use missiles?
Yes, we are.
And yes, your loyalty is with Ukraine, not us Americans
Yes, we are.
And yes, your loyalty is with Ukraine, not us Americans
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:16 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:No, I mean the actual fricks in the bush and in Kiev. Americans who support this conflict are about as bright as people who believe in more than two genders. If I were Putin I would have nuked those frickers with a tactical when they "invaded".
All behind the keyboard. Too big of pussies to die, so they just advocate for others to die.
These are the people who fait at the sight of an AR15.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:17 pm to the808bass
quote:
Absolutely zero skin in the game.
But they cheer on dying Ukrainians daily.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:17 pm to ninthward
And people who believe that there can be one nuke and it won't set off a chain reaction global war are imbeciles.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:18 pm to OBReb6
quote:
What gives us the right of the Monroe doctrine?
US military power.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:18 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Yes I do. One of my best friends is from Ukraine
go join him.
thats where your loyalty is. Its not with the USA, you want us dragged in..
You are a damn liar. I have never supported the USA joining the war. The only way I would support the USA entering the war is if Russia was stupid enough to attack the USA or another NATO nation.
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