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re: When did Republican=conservative / Democrat=liberal start?
Posted on 12/11/17 at 9:43 am to Napoleon
Posted on 12/11/17 at 9:43 am to Napoleon
quote:
When did Republican=conservative / Democrat=liberal start?
LBJ started this shite. Being a Democrat was not a sign of absolute stupidity until he came along.
Call it what you want = liberal/conservative - progressive/constitutionalist - illogical/logical - entitlement/merit = it is all the same.
The modern Democrat party has not had a unifying message is 30 years - they have abandoned all devotion to the nation since Obama - they are now nothing but advocates for 'group-think.'
As for me, I have not called them 'liberal' since the early 70s. If anything, they are socialists. They hate the actual liberty guaranteed by the constitution and only use it in perverted ways to attack the heritage given us by the founders.
And the words of the founders are even more relevant today = "We have given you a Republic, see that you protect it."
Every social problem we have in modern America is the direct result of ill-begotten DEMOCRAT policies.
The GOP has been brow-beat into accepting a lot of that swill, and I don't like them either, but the GOP represents the only cadre of people who are trying to right the ship. There is not a single DEM who would not rejoice in the overturn of the constitution as it exists and replacing it with a instrument to enshrine "government rights" instead of "individual rights"
0
Posted on 12/11/17 at 10:01 am to MajorTaylor
quote:
The Civil Rights Movement was a liberal movement pushed by liberals and primarily populated by liberals.
Now this is the false narrative. Republicans are more responsible for real civil rights than Democrats.
What has driven the two parties apart is the legacy of LBJ who saw 'civil rights' as a means of dividing people into warring camps and ensuring that a great swath of the population could be seduced into relying on government largess in order to utterly destroy mankind's innate yearning to be free and responsible for their own future.
DEMs have convinced them that it is better to live in poverty and sacrifice your progeny so long as the govt check keeps coming.
The biggest lie in modern politics is that the DEMOCRAT party is the "champion of the oppressed" - the DEM party is the oppressor.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 10:07 am to teke184
quote:
I think I it really started around 1964 with Goldwater vs LBJ and accelerated as the far left of the Dems took off.
IMHO this really is the start of it.
However, OP really needs to clarify what he thinks is liberal and conservative? I don't think the parties have ever been as clearly divided along ideological lines as they are now in at least the past 70 years.
Democrats are clearly for more government than Republicans.
Which is not to say that Democrats want government everywhere. Only a very few are socialists.
Which is not to say that Republicans do not want any government at all. Only a very few are anarchists.
But go back to the early 80s and you will see VERY conservative Democrats (from the South) and fairly liberal Republicans (mostly Northeast).
Posted on 12/11/17 at 10:09 am to skrayper
I agree. It needs aspects of both, while being neither.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 10:12 am to ChineseBandit58
It's a good point. The Republican party was largely founded on abolitionist thought.
Also in many ways up until Taft, Republicans were more progressive.
Also in many ways up until Taft, Republicans were more progressive.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 10:20 am to Napoleon
I believe a case can be made, as the democratic party invites more and more far left groups under their tent, that it does indeed represent the leftist if not liberal side of the coin.
There is no correlation between the republican party, if we identify the party by it's elected officials, and conservatism.
There is no correlation between the republican party, if we identify the party by it's elected officials, and conservatism.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 10:26 am to Zach
quote:
This is the motto of every totalitarian state in history.
There's Nationalism, then there's Totalitarianism. It is easy to slide from one into the other, so while you should actively work to make your country better you should always be aware of that slope.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 10:28 am to Napoleon
quote:
It's a good point. The Republican party was largely founded on abolitionist thought. Also in many ways up until Taft, Republicans were more progressive.
They were but their progressivism was not what the left is calling progressives today.
The progressive of old was for creating an environment codified in law, where by all human beings would be treated as equally, under the law, as their actions and abilities allow.
The modern progressive is about using the law and governments gun to force equality of outcome.
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 10:38 am
Posted on 12/11/17 at 10:30 am to BigJim
I mean in the boards sense.
Anyone who says anything negative about Trump is a liberal.
Anyone who says anything negative about Trump is a liberal.
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 10:30 am
Posted on 12/11/17 at 10:34 am to Salmon
quote:
neither conservative nor liberal has any real meaning anymore they have both just become monikers for what we hate about the "other side"
Which is borne out when you see the use of the term by our media reference things beyond our shores.
When the USSR was breaking down, the factions that wanted more capitalism were called "liberal"......the factions that wanted to keep the USSR were "conservative forces".
And, that leads up to this very day. I cannot think of a single case outside our shores where our media described the less attractive side as "liberal".
For the media, all "conservative" really means is "bad people".
Otherwise, calling those in NK who want to keep Kim Jong Un in power "conservative" would be comically silly.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 10:42 am to ChineseBandit58
Do you think no one will notice how you switched from Liberal / Conservative to Democrat / Republican??
The segregationist Democrats were Conservatives. For instance, George Wallace.
The Republicans who advanced civil rights for blacks were liberal / progressive.
The Klan was populated by Christian conservatives who feared Communism and were concerned over the impact of mass immigration.
The murdered civil rights workers were Liberals and they were murdered by Conservatives.
The segregationist Democrats were Conservatives. For instance, George Wallace.
The Republicans who advanced civil rights for blacks were liberal / progressive.
The Klan was populated by Christian conservatives who feared Communism and were concerned over the impact of mass immigration.
The murdered civil rights workers were Liberals and they were murdered by Conservatives.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 10:48 am to BigJim
quote:
Which is not to say that Democrats want government everywhere. Only a very few are socialists.
Oh really? How many Democrats do you know that aren’t in favor of the ACA?
Posted on 12/11/17 at 10:50 am to Salmon
Well that’s just flat out false.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 11:05 am to Napoleon
quote:
Washing machine efficiency regulations started under W.
I'm aware of that. It's a movement from the left that many republicans are fine with going along.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 11:31 am to 225bred
quote:
Well that’s just flat out false.
can you explain how it is false please?
thanks
Posted on 12/11/17 at 12:18 pm to MajorTaylor
I was called a **** lover in 1949 by children of "conservatives" from texas.
Actually, "ny jew **** loving commie". I was 7.
Actually, "ny jew **** loving commie". I was 7.
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 12/11/17 at 12:23 pm to MajorTaylor
quote:
That drove conservatives and Conservatives away from the Democratic party and associated "Democrat" with liberal / progressive. The Civil Rights Movement was a liberal movement pushed by liberals and primarily populated by liberals
Read up on the history of the civil rights act, and how frequently a “Democrat” held up the process.
They had to overcome filibuster attempts and attempts to lie it die in committee, all organized by Dems.
In the final tallies, R’s votes in favor of the passage at rates 20% higher than D’s.
So tell me again how they were the driving force politically that caused the party to be indelibly associated with liberals? Or did you mean simply because it was a Dem President that pushed it
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 12/11/17 at 12:50 pm to Volvagia
He explained it. At the time you had liberals and conservatives in each party
Posted on 12/11/17 at 12:53 pm to Napoleon
But that doesn’t explain his proposition that it was this that caused the party of Democrats to be identified as liberal.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 1:45 pm to MajorTaylor
quote:
Do you think no one will notice how you switched from Liberal / Conservative to Democrat / Republican?? The segregationist Democrats were Conservatives. For instance, George Wallace. The Republicans who advanced civil rights for blacks were liberal / progressive. The Klan was populated by Christian conservatives who feared Communism and were concerned over the impact of mass immigration. The murdered civil rights workers were Liberals and they were murdered by Conservatives.
Do you seriously believe the absolute bullshite you just posted?
quote:
The segregationist Democrats were Conservatives. For instance, George Wallace.
George Wallace was never a Conservative. He was a power seeking politician. He wasn't even a segregationist.
While running for Governor 1958 he said,"I want to tell the good people of this state as a judge of the 3rd Judicial Circuit, if I didn’t have what it took to treat a man fair regardless of his color, then I don’t have what it takes to be the governor of your great state."
After he lost in 1958 he famously quipped "I was out-n*ggered by John Patterson. And I'll tell you here and now, I will never be out-n*ggered again"
His whole standing in the school house door was a political stance too, since he had made the campaign promise in 62 that he would do so!
The Klan was never populated by Christians conservatives.
Tell me which one of them fit the description of Christ like? They also were primarily democrats.
You guys on the left love to quibble over terms associated with conservative or progressive ideologies.
The problem is you guys always change the terms and site non-factual history to ty to support your bullshite.
The progressive of old is not the progressive of today.
The progressive of old was for creating an environment codified in law, where by all human beings would be treated as equally, under the law, as their actions and abilities allow.
The modern progressive is about using the law and governments gun to force equality of outcome.
The progressive of old would still be a Republican
The modern progressive is a democrat and is still the same guy who owned slaves, passed Jim Crowe laws and fought "real civil rights" legislation.
Real Civil rights legislation = legislation that guarantees in law that each individual can do the best his abilities allow him to achieve without discrimination.
Fake civil rights legislation = what the democrats passed, and it forces a subservient class of citizens to allow racists to maintain power.
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 1:55 pm
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