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re: Which State Secedes First?
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:27 am to CU_Tigers4life
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:27 am to CU_Tigers4life
No state is going to secede because every state of any serious means is too greatly controlled by its cities.
There was a Free State project proposed years ago for the Dakotas or South Carolina. People would have to move to a designated area and take a stand, I suppose. Don't see it myself.
There was a Free State project proposed years ago for the Dakotas or South Carolina. People would have to move to a designated area and take a stand, I suppose. Don't see it myself.
0
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:29 am to Jake88
quote:
Really sit down and think about how monumental that would be. Think about how much would have to change. Courts, currency, stock markets, new laws, new constitution.
So you are saying these United States are more centrally controlled than the USSR was? Interesting take.
quote:
When it came time to vote it would fail by something approaching 75% no to 25% yes.
You clearly know not of what you speak. There are more than 25% in favor before the momentum was picking up.
Is it a shoe-in? No, but with the correct education, people can see the benefit to Texans.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:33 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Pineapples and farming are pretty big out there. The country’s largest farm is actually in Hawaii.
So it is your position that HI could sustain itself as in independent nation on pineapples? I am aware that they grow things in Hawaii. No modern state with a welfare system as large and robust as what Hawaiians currently enjoy is surviving on agriculture alone.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:33 am to Jake88
quote:
Really sit down and think about how monumental that would be. Think about how much would have to change. Courts, currency, stock markets, new laws, new constitution. When it came time to vote it would fail by something approaching 75% no to 25% yes.
You don’t think there are other nations and corporations that would catch on to how lucrative of a proposition this would be? BASF has a massive footprint in North America when you consider the diversity of intermediates produced in the south, along with the agricultural products produced in other facilities. Every petro-chemical company and any foreign nations with interests in such would be licking their chops. This “net zero” green thumb bullshite isn’t going to do anything other than benefit China. A perpetual liar when it comes to fair trade and international patent law.
This post was edited on 4/21/21 at 10:34 am
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:34 am to brad8504
What about the rest of what I said?
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:36 am to CU_Tigers4life
As much as I think it is a good idea, no states will secede....they lose too much federal money!
The feds got us by the balls.
The feds got us by the balls.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:38 am to alphaandomega
quote:
Conservatives get the "flyover" portion in the middle.
I'm almost in on that, but i'm not giving those frickers the southern coastline! They might already be invading the outer banks, but that's my coast! MINE!
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:38 am to CU_Tigers4life
Texas is a 52/48 state there is zero chance of secession
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:39 am to CU_Tigers4life
Texas and FL have to lead the charge on this, other states will follow suit. They are the only two red states that are fairly self sustaining.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:44 am to oldskule
If a few states like the Dakotas for example that has oil and a good agricultural state also has a lot of space.
In a hypothetical secession, one of these new nations could create a tax structure to encourage migration and also so business friendly with conservative laws that would see a huge migration on people an business. Being near Canada they can form trade deals and be totally self supportive without the US. It would be interest to see what the native Indian tribes would react.
I think if a legitimate threat of a secession occurred it would be a huge wake up call to these politicians. No Senator, President, or Congressperson would like to have their names associated with being part of breaking the union up.
In a hypothetical secession, one of these new nations could create a tax structure to encourage migration and also so business friendly with conservative laws that would see a huge migration on people an business. Being near Canada they can form trade deals and be totally self supportive without the US. It would be interest to see what the native Indian tribes would react.
I think if a legitimate threat of a secession occurred it would be a huge wake up call to these politicians. No Senator, President, or Congressperson would like to have their names associated with being part of breaking the union up.
This post was edited on 4/21/21 at 10:45 am
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:44 am to brad8504
quote:
Nola would form its own USA territory before it seceded.
quote:
And a giant blockade around the city restricting maritime access, rail transport, and even OTR commerce wouldn’t force them into submission?
If Nola vowed loyalty to the USA and Louisiana succeeded and blockaded it, the USA military would get involved.
Also, everyone talking about taking the Mississippi River away but peacefully leaving the USA is being overly optimistic. I have no doubt the US government will fight with or without force to maintain control of the Mississippi.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:48 am to Jake88
quote:
What about the rest of what I said?
You create allies by securing investors these days. The dollar is dwindling, crypto is on the rise, and the stock market doesn’t need to change. The places where those companies do business may alter slightly, but you can invest as a foreigner, so I don’t see where that presents a big problem.
I see the need for energy and food a bigger issue for the outsiders than I see our need for stocks.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:52 am to sportsaddit68
quote:
Also, everyone talking about taking the Mississippi River away but peacefully leaving the USA is being overly optimistic. I have no doubt the US government will fight with or without force to maintain control of the Mississippi.
This is why you build relationships with other nations. This idea isn’t as far-fetched as some of you believe.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:56 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
I can see parts of Idaho or Montana just ignoring federal mandates.
If there was ever going to be a conflict, that’s how it would start. That’s assuming Washington sends Federal Agents in to stomp on them, and the locals stop them.
Tend to agree.
And Idaho looks like the intentionally-chosen destination for a lot of people who see a split as reasonable on horizon. As in, they're choosing to relocate with that in mind. And at least from limited observation, some of them have the skillset and history to be taken seriously.
That said, I don't think it's out of the question that you see Texas or Tennessee or even Georgia or Florida flat out say no to a Federal edict before long. We pretty much got that during Trump with sanctuary cities, I don't think states will be far behind if Biden really pushed the 2A infringements.
I do think there is going to be a lot of reluctance there because I think Biden knows that Texas will call his bluff and he knows what would be required to keep the federal government's credibility at that point. I'm not sure he's ready to do that for a small sliver of hard leftists who don't really like him anyway.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 11:00 am to Champagne
quote:
I don't know that any of us will live to see Secession because IMHO it will take more than a generation for the process of subjugated decay to undermine the USA.
maybe. The progressive shift towards abolotionism didn't really take hold in the North until the 1830s. The South began secession in 1860 with South Carolina. However, the sessecion discussions that precipatated actual secession really started to gain steam in 1850 when California was being admitted as a state. So if we use history as a guide, it won't necessarily take more than a generation for things to boil over. The last time we had a crisis of secession it took fewer than 20 years from the time people discussed the idea (I'm not counting John C Calhoun threatening it in 1828 over the Tarriff of Abominations) until a state actually seceded.
quote:
The process of subjugated decay will work over time. It will culminate to its logical end state. However, this end state is at least 80 years from now, and probably more like 150 years.
It definitely doesn't take 80 to 150 years to reach a tipping point, that's for certain. I already mentioned the Civil War context, but it took us less time than that in the American Revolution too. Acts of secession and/or revolution, yes, will slowly build over time, but the act of actually seceding usually happens pretty suddenly once things reach a tipping point. And with all the proposed, radical legilsation in just the few months Biden has been in office, the Democrats are doing everything they can to speed up that process.
This post was edited on 4/21/21 at 11:02 am
Posted on 4/21/21 at 11:03 am to brad8504
Ok. Laws needed to replace the US federal laws? At least many of them. Legal precedents? Those holdings by the USSC wouldn't hold weight any longer, would they? Would all of that have to be rehashed in the new country?
This post was edited on 4/21/21 at 11:06 am
Posted on 4/21/21 at 11:04 am to Champagne
quote:
Perhaps some kind of semi-independent "province" will work.
That's how our country was designed to be fwiw
Posted on 4/21/21 at 11:07 am to CU_Tigers4life
quote:None. The federal government would swoop in with the quickness and drop the hammer on that shite.
So which State do you have seceding first?
Or do some of you think any state can actually separate from the US by either:
1. avoiding armed conflict
2. succeeding in the event of armed conflict
I get some of you are mad, but if you think Biden, a Dem Congress and an expanding USSC is going to let that fly I have a bridge to sell you.
Maybe...maybe if a block of states pulled out all at once it might be feasible. But if only one state tries (even if that state is TX) it wouldn't last a month.
Don't get your own hopes up.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 11:07 am to CU_Tigers4life
The Texas Freedom Referendum bill is still stuck in committee. I'm thinking the entrenched opponents (both parties) of the legislation are fearful of losing their place at the federal feed trough. Plus, the democrats are going about (not so quietly) moving illegals (aka democrat voters) into voting districts in Texas. If the Texas Nationalist Movement (TNM) is unsuccessful in getting that referendum on secession on the ballot in 2022 most likely the chance of secession is lost forever.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 11:09 am to CU_Tigers4life
No state will successfully secede.
Military is currently patrolling our nation's capital. Our permanent government actively goes after people who are anti-establishment. Our military industrial complex has been purging wrongthinking soldiers for a few months now.
Any state that legit secedes...will be met with our extremely corrupt establishment. Wouldn't surprise me if bitch Biden has the military fire a few missiles at the seceding state's capital.
Military is currently patrolling our nation's capital. Our permanent government actively goes after people who are anti-establishment. Our military industrial complex has been purging wrongthinking soldiers for a few months now.
Any state that legit secedes...will be met with our extremely corrupt establishment. Wouldn't surprise me if bitch Biden has the military fire a few missiles at the seceding state's capital.
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