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Started By
Message
Old Band-talk email from 13 years ago
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:44 pm
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:44 pm
Found this.
Agree or disagree? 2010 email.
Agree or disagree? 2010 email.
quote:
The barriers that used to exist in the industry weren't all bad. When recording costs money, and reproduction costs money, it's a barrier from letting every half-assed teenage garage band from putting out singles and EPs. When you have to actually print and handout flyers instead of spamming your myspace friends with two clicks (guess why myspace shite the bed and facebook is the new thing? They make you pay to be a band and spam people...), when you have to actually call bookers and play phone tag and pay to put together actual press kits at Kinkos, and reproduce actual demos in a physical form, when you have to actually hit the bricks to get a show date and have people come out, when you have to actually fine tune your amp settings and playing style because there are no Superman pedals that make you instantly sound appealing, when you have to actually play a song over and over on a cassette player in order to learn a cover because there is no tabulature website, you have to actually practice and learn scales and chords and theory, you actually pay a guitar or bass teacher, etc etc .
These barriers all used to function as filters to keep the shite out of the art supply. So, wherever some boy genius hits the big time, and would have otherwise never been successful in the old world, there are one million other boy retards that are diluting the entire art form.
So what does it mean today to be better than average? Not much. The bottom is lower now than ever. So a crap band could still be better than average. It drags down the overall quality of the music that is available. Those big bad record execs and distributors used to filter out the shittiest of the shitty for us. And even then, if your musical style wasn't mainstream enough to get picked up by one of the big boys, there were plenty of indy labels that put out stuff like Nirvana. But, you still had to be decent artists.
Hell, the rappers did it themselves. They created their entire industry from scratch. They didn't need the internet, and they didn't need the record companies. They did it from the streets. But, they self-filtered out the shite. If your raps and beats were subpar, you didn't get heard because the industry itself sort of policed itself for wack MCs.
Where is all this going? Think about the newspaper industry over time. In the past, only wealthy or educated people read newspapers. They were full of grammar, compound sentences;and occasionally used semicolons. Newspapers were written at a college level. Now, everyone* reads newspapers, and they are written at a 3rd grade level, and are full of errors. Just today I read an online story from the London Telegraph that might as well have came out of the Flagpole. I read an ABH story yesterday with the same problems. The entire linguistic culture of the country has been diminished over time, due to technology making things "easier" and more available to everyone.
Talk to any photographer that's been in the business for more than 10 years and ask what technology, the internet, and Photoshop has done to the quality of their art form, whether it's wedding photos, art, or sports photography.
Now that music is easier than ever to create, and easier than ever to distribute, it's going to be shittier than ever.
10
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:58 pm to deeprig9
Double edge sword
Posted on 3/17/23 at 4:51 am to deeprig9
quote:
and they are written at a 3rd grade level, and are full of errors. Just today I read an online story from the London Telegraph that might as well have came out of the Flagpole
quote:
…might as well have came out of…
Posted on 3/17/23 at 7:57 am to deeprig9
The great thing about Pro Tools is that it lets anyone create music...the worst thing about Pro Tools is that it lets anyone create music.
Posted on 3/17/23 at 8:36 am to deeprig9
Musicians don’t even make music anymore they just get famous for not drinking and bitching about trump
Posted on 3/17/23 at 5:57 pm to deeprig9
quote:true
Now that music is easier than ever to create, and easier than ever to distribute, it's going to be shittier than ever.
Posted on 3/17/23 at 5:57 pm to deeprig9
Same goes for filmmaking.
Posted on 3/17/23 at 6:20 pm to shutterspeed
Except pornography
Posted on 3/17/23 at 6:59 pm to deeprig9
Anytime the cost of a process decreases to the point that anyone can afford to “buy” their way in, you’re going to see a drop in quality.
Doesn’t matter what business or industry we’re talking about.
IMO, the major difference these days is a more elementary style of music, which I believe comes from the lack of experienced producers working with young artists.
Doesn’t matter what business or industry we’re talking about.
IMO, the major difference these days is a more elementary style of music, which I believe comes from the lack of experienced producers working with young artists.
Posted on 3/17/23 at 7:45 pm to geauxbrown
Look how everyone and his brother have a podcast.
Posted on 3/17/23 at 11:21 pm to deeprig9
Makes sense but seems like there will always be a filter or regulator of some sort. Just because every limp dick is creating barely decent/shite music doesn’t mean it’s going anywhere significant.
Posted on 3/18/23 at 12:36 pm to deeprig9
People in the 70’s could still diy shite. It was more difficult, but was done frequently. The big difference was how the filter worked. A&R used to scout shows. Who you knew was important, but there was also a right place/right time element to it. They weren’t even looking at your draw, only your sound and stage performance.
Today, the filters are playlisters and algorithms. They scan socials to find bands with rapidly growing social media followings. They have to look right, sound right, and have a massive following already there before being considered. In the old days, labels would take chances on bands that sound good. Today, a label won’t help you until you’ve proven you don’t need one.
As a result, music is actually more expensive than ever to market and break out. It’s more based on who you know than ever before. While social media gives power to artists to diy everything and build a following without industry support, getting industry support to get to the level where you can actually focus on music full time is MUCH harder. In addition, while one can argue one doesn’t have to be as skilled a musician to make it today compared to 1986, you have to be SO MUCH MORE SKILLED at EVERYTHING ELSE!
It’s not enough to just be a talented guitarist, singer, songwriter, etc. You have to have the look, you have to know the algorithm to get noticed and make your ads pay out. You have to be your own videographer and be putting out short form video’s literally multiple times every day. You have to be your own graphic designer, your own tour director, etc. You have to release content CONSTANTLY. The amount of work other than practicing and performing is impossible for one person with a full time job to do. As a result, you’re always stuck between needing a full time job to support yourself and not having enough time to pour into the socials game to grow your following enough for the industry to notice you.
As for what you sound like, you can make some beautiful stuff now. You can make whatever you want. However, good luck getting anyone to hear it. Venues pay less for live music than ever before. The percentage of the population willing to see live and pay for live bands is smaller than ever, and the competition has never been larger. Local Bands make the same money they did in the early 90’s despite inflation making that money worth significantly less. The crowds don’t really care. They just want a familiar sounding cover band or dj playing in the background of their night. Original music is literally only supported by the friends and families of the artists until you can break through somehow (usually by rich parents paying for you to break through). It’s a huge depressing racket.
However, if you’re in Baton Rouge tonight, and you want to see what the music industry is like today, there’s a show at 524 N Foster starting at 8:00pm. The bands on the bill run the gamut. The first two are pop punk projects, but ones with a high degree of musicality who have poured a lot of time and talent to make an honest run at this. The third band is a touring band coming back from SXSW. They’ve opened for some pretty big bands on tour (The Menzingers and Sincere Engineer among others) yet here they are. The forth band is an instrumental metal band in the vein of polyphia, playing incredibly complex arrangements. The final act is a pretty brutal established metal act out of Lafayette. All of these bands have professional studio productions, veteran band members, and take their crafts deadly seriously. Yet, they’re all languishing in a local scene that they’ll likely never really grow out of. The right taste-maker will probably never hear them, their content won’t “go viral”, and while they might tour for a while and occasionally break even, they’ll probably never be able to support themselves with their music.
But, much like the bull rider who knows he’s going to get hurt being thrown off the bull, they still are going to hop in the shoot and take that 8 second ride every time because musicians love what they do and live for what they create.
Today, the filters are playlisters and algorithms. They scan socials to find bands with rapidly growing social media followings. They have to look right, sound right, and have a massive following already there before being considered. In the old days, labels would take chances on bands that sound good. Today, a label won’t help you until you’ve proven you don’t need one.
As a result, music is actually more expensive than ever to market and break out. It’s more based on who you know than ever before. While social media gives power to artists to diy everything and build a following without industry support, getting industry support to get to the level where you can actually focus on music full time is MUCH harder. In addition, while one can argue one doesn’t have to be as skilled a musician to make it today compared to 1986, you have to be SO MUCH MORE SKILLED at EVERYTHING ELSE!
It’s not enough to just be a talented guitarist, singer, songwriter, etc. You have to have the look, you have to know the algorithm to get noticed and make your ads pay out. You have to be your own videographer and be putting out short form video’s literally multiple times every day. You have to be your own graphic designer, your own tour director, etc. You have to release content CONSTANTLY. The amount of work other than practicing and performing is impossible for one person with a full time job to do. As a result, you’re always stuck between needing a full time job to support yourself and not having enough time to pour into the socials game to grow your following enough for the industry to notice you.
As for what you sound like, you can make some beautiful stuff now. You can make whatever you want. However, good luck getting anyone to hear it. Venues pay less for live music than ever before. The percentage of the population willing to see live and pay for live bands is smaller than ever, and the competition has never been larger. Local Bands make the same money they did in the early 90’s despite inflation making that money worth significantly less. The crowds don’t really care. They just want a familiar sounding cover band or dj playing in the background of their night. Original music is literally only supported by the friends and families of the artists until you can break through somehow (usually by rich parents paying for you to break through). It’s a huge depressing racket.
However, if you’re in Baton Rouge tonight, and you want to see what the music industry is like today, there’s a show at 524 N Foster starting at 8:00pm. The bands on the bill run the gamut. The first two are pop punk projects, but ones with a high degree of musicality who have poured a lot of time and talent to make an honest run at this. The third band is a touring band coming back from SXSW. They’ve opened for some pretty big bands on tour (The Menzingers and Sincere Engineer among others) yet here they are. The forth band is an instrumental metal band in the vein of polyphia, playing incredibly complex arrangements. The final act is a pretty brutal established metal act out of Lafayette. All of these bands have professional studio productions, veteran band members, and take their crafts deadly seriously. Yet, they’re all languishing in a local scene that they’ll likely never really grow out of. The right taste-maker will probably never hear them, their content won’t “go viral”, and while they might tour for a while and occasionally break even, they’ll probably never be able to support themselves with their music.
But, much like the bull rider who knows he’s going to get hurt being thrown off the bull, they still are going to hop in the shoot and take that 8 second ride every time because musicians love what they do and live for what they create.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 11:24 am to kingbob
Something of note also- I was reading snips from an article about how Trump recently had the #1 itunes spot for a week, over Taylor Swift and Tim McGraw. Later in the article it said he sold 22,000 downloads during that week.
I was surprised that 22,000 downloads gets you to the top spot on itunes for a week. People clearly aren't buying music like they used to.
I was surprised that 22,000 downloads gets you to the top spot on itunes for a week. People clearly aren't buying music like they used to.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 11:43 am to deeprig9
I’ve always said technology makes things harder and easier all at the same time….and furthermore, at the risk of sounding nostalgic, there was NOTHING ON EARTH like racing to the music store to buy your favorite band’s new cassette or CD…that feeling makes the pre-ordering download(s) process seem like a joke. Maybe I’m just old.
Posted on 3/20/23 at 3:53 pm to themetalreb
quote:
NOTHING ON EARTH like racing to the music store to buy your favorite band’s new cassette or CD
Or just hanging out at the record store looking for stuff and talking to the store owner.
Jimmy Rink owned the Record Rink on College Drive next to where the old Coffee Call was in the late 70s early 80s.
Cool guy. I’d hang out there talking about music with him. Good ol days.
Posted on 3/21/23 at 6:51 am to kingbob
Lots of truth in this thread, has been a great read
Posted on 3/21/23 at 11:32 am to kingbob
quote:
People in the 70’s could still diy shite. It was more difficult, but was done frequently.
And I'm sure there were people in the 60's and 70's writing an almost identical article that's in the OP, because things were easier for musicians then when compared to the 40's and 50's. The barriers to entry into the music business have gone down over time...though now, I'd argue they haven't just gone down, but have changed and even gone up in some ways.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 8:43 am to kingbob
quote:
(usually by rich parents paying for you to break through)
Wait this is all you have to do?
ETA: playing live is a racket. People like live music but it’s not worth the trouble and it doesn’t get you any further “out there”
I think the main reason there is way more music produced is because our lives are way worse than people in the 60s/70s or at any other time
Like why would I make music if I had a cool factory job where I could get drunk with the boys at the bowling alley after work and then drive my 4K studebaker home to my 20k 2 story house where my not fat wife would have a hot meal cooked?
Essentially the angst of never having a chance at a fulfilling life is making more people try their chances with the meat grinder of music
This post was edited on 3/22/23 at 8:52 am
Posted on 3/22/23 at 9:20 am to el Gaucho
I disagree on the live performance part because that (and merch) are the only profitable parts of making music for an artist. Recording quality tracks is expensive, promoting those tracks to attract streams rarely, if ever, will return more money in streams than you pay to promote it (unless you get to superstar level). The same is true for ads to grow socials and your YouTube page. Odds are, even if you manage to break out and have lots of sponsored content, you’ll barely break even.
Live shows is where you actually make money. Live shows are also where you will sell the overwhelming majority of your merch, which is also a profitable part of the business. Everything else is just meant to drive people to your shows.
Live shows is where you actually make money. Live shows are also where you will sell the overwhelming majority of your merch, which is also a profitable part of the business. Everything else is just meant to drive people to your shows.
This post was edited on 3/22/23 at 9:21 am
Posted on 3/22/23 at 9:31 am to kingbob
quote:
I disagree on the live performance part because that (and merch) are the only profitable parts of making music for an artist. Recording quality tracks is expensive, promoting those tracks to attract streams rarely, if ever, will return more money in streams than you pay to promote it (unless you get to superstar level). The same is true for ads to grow socials and your YouTube page. Odds are, even if you manage to break out and have lots of sponsored content, you’ll barely break even.
I’m gonna break out
I’m gonna beg for money on patreon and get YouTube money, at my house, drinking beer. This is the future of music but don’t tell anyone til I get big
quote:
Live shows is where you actually make money. Live shows are also where you will sell the overwhelming majority of your merch, which is also a profitable part of the business. Everything else is just meant to drive people to your shows
I’ve never broken even on a live show except once
Music is kind of a dumb art form tbh. It’s a holdover from when a king had to listen to a dude with a lyre for entertainment
ETA: I built a home studio if you ever wanna come over and record
This post was edited on 3/22/23 at 9:35 am
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