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Message
Would running some 3-3-5 open a few big play opportunities for Perkins?
Posted on 9/11/24 at 1:58 pm
Posted on 9/11/24 at 1:58 pm
I’ll start off by saying I’ve never been a fan of a straight 3-3-5 defense. I’ve seen too many DCs use it as a base defense with undersized units and struggle to contain the run to ever be a big fan. Let me be very clear- I am NOT advocating for Baker to switch us to 3-3-5 as a base defense.
However, I listened to the latest 247 podcast this morning and they floated using a 3-3-5 as a way to open up some opportunities for Perkins without moving him to Star or DE. This would also free him from some of the responsibilities of the run game that he’s struggling with as an MLB. It would likely have to be used on passing downs, so 2nd or 3rd and long or 4th and 5 or more.
While I don’t love pulling a DE off the field to do this, I can see where this package can be more effective than just playing Perkins as a 4-3 DE for some blitzes. First, he would be back to playing his familiar true OLB role, but unlike last season, we would still have 5 in the secondary around him, so he wouldn’t be caught having to play in coverage constantly.
Second, having Perkins as a true OLB would allow Baker to move him around some, especially pre-snap. When he’s lined up as a DE, he’s going to have to work around Tackles and TEs right off the line at the snap. His size will always be a disadvantage there. Put back in his OLB role, he can move around pre-snap and get the defense guessing. Then he can look for gaps to shoot after the snap to get pressure, or hit the edge hard and use his speed if the play goes wide. Everyone remembers how he was able to use his speed laterally in that Arkansas game his freshman season.
As much as I don’t want to see us play too much 3-3-5, this seems like a reasonable way to get Perkins a handful of snaps per game in the scenario we all remember from his freshman year- spying and attacking the ball with less overall responsibility. If Baker thinks it wound create some opportunities for big plays, to could be a good idea for 5-10 snaps per game.
However, I listened to the latest 247 podcast this morning and they floated using a 3-3-5 as a way to open up some opportunities for Perkins without moving him to Star or DE. This would also free him from some of the responsibilities of the run game that he’s struggling with as an MLB. It would likely have to be used on passing downs, so 2nd or 3rd and long or 4th and 5 or more.
While I don’t love pulling a DE off the field to do this, I can see where this package can be more effective than just playing Perkins as a 4-3 DE for some blitzes. First, he would be back to playing his familiar true OLB role, but unlike last season, we would still have 5 in the secondary around him, so he wouldn’t be caught having to play in coverage constantly.
Second, having Perkins as a true OLB would allow Baker to move him around some, especially pre-snap. When he’s lined up as a DE, he’s going to have to work around Tackles and TEs right off the line at the snap. His size will always be a disadvantage there. Put back in his OLB role, he can move around pre-snap and get the defense guessing. Then he can look for gaps to shoot after the snap to get pressure, or hit the edge hard and use his speed if the play goes wide. Everyone remembers how he was able to use his speed laterally in that Arkansas game his freshman season.
As much as I don’t want to see us play too much 3-3-5, this seems like a reasonable way to get Perkins a handful of snaps per game in the scenario we all remember from his freshman year- spying and attacking the ball with less overall responsibility. If Baker thinks it wound create some opportunities for big plays, to could be a good idea for 5-10 snaps per game.
7
Posted on 9/11/24 at 4:39 pm to misey94
Does LSU have a NT that can clog up the middle ?
Posted on 9/11/24 at 4:55 pm to OchoDedos
This is the problem. We don’t have someone at the nose guard position to handle 3 down lineman.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 4:59 pm to Sofaking2
We’re already playing with a nose guard anyway so how would it change?
Posted on 9/11/24 at 5:35 pm to misey94
this isn't ncaa 25 335 Tite don't work IRl
Posted on 9/11/24 at 6:57 pm to misey94
Not against a big running QB. Maybe a pocket passer. They will have to be multiple and guess right.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:18 pm to poncho villa
quote:
this isn't ncaa 25 335 Tite don't work IRl
Not sure what the "Tite" and "IRI" references mean in your post (maybe they invalidate what I'm about to post?), but a 3-3-5 might have merit with Guillory lost for the season on the DL.
Interesting article (imho), about Charlie Strong taking Bob Davie's 3-4 defense from Notre Dame and adjusting it into an attacking 3-3-5 at USCe circa 2000 because USCe didn't have enough size or talent on the DL at the time. I think some variations are referred to as "Mustang", but Strong called his a "30 Stack":
old Grantland article
I have little scheme knowledge myself, but remember reading this some time ago and thought it interesting... and this thread reminded me of it. Seems to my layman mind that a similar approach might work with LSU'S personnel at least some of the time.
Eta: and, as described, with LBs hiding behind DL and controlled havoc by the DL, it does potentially open a lane for Perkins more often, as the OP suggests.
This post was edited on 9/11/24 at 9:27 pm
Posted on 9/12/24 at 10:10 am to OchoDedos
quote:
Does LSU have a NT that can clog up the middle ?
Not with Guliiory out. That’s why this can only work for obvious passing downs.
Posted on 9/12/24 at 10:13 am to Mobiletiggah
quote:
Not against a big running QB. Maybe a pocket passer. They will have to be multiple and guess right.
I think it depends on how big they are. Perkins had a lot of success his freshman year as a spy vs Dart and he’s not small.
Posted on 9/12/24 at 11:31 am to misey94
you dont have a nose to clog the middle... you cant run a 3/3/5 or a 3/4 without one... that NT has to be 330lbs and take two blockers every single snap... its why tyler shelvin and sia ika were so vital back in the day.. they made everyone else look great because of numbers...
Posted on 9/12/24 at 1:32 pm to TigerFan55555
quote:
you dont have a nose to clog the middle... you cant run a 3/3/5 or a 3/4 without one... that NT has to be 330lbs and take two blockers every single snap... its why tyler shelvin and sia ika were so vital back in the day.. they made everyone else look great because of numbers...
Again, I’m not saying you play this alignment more than a handful of snaps where you know the other team is passing the ball. The lack of an NT would be a bigger issue if they are running the ball.
Posted on 9/12/24 at 3:19 pm to misey94
quote:
Not with Guliiory out. That’s why this can only work for obvious passing downs.
What advantage did Guillory give us?
Have you seen his stats for this season? For his career?
I’m sad for the kid. It sucks he got hurt. But he was NOT a good player, now or ever. He couldn’t one-gap, much less play a 2-gap (sometimes) NG position.
Posted on 9/12/24 at 3:22 pm to Mobiletiggah
Like AR15?
Posted on 9/13/24 at 6:52 am to misey94
Losing Guillory really hurts when we want to be creative on the defensive front in terms of playing different fronts. I'm unsure why we didn't see it in a game but in practice one of the more successful fronts was having Guillory at the nose, Swinson at 1 DE and Savion at the other DE spot.
We then Stood up Whit outside the tackle and had Perk stand up outside the tackle. It was a bear front with Penn in the middle. It presented a lot of issues with a combination of blitzes and simulated pressures while also giving us the ability to stop the run due to the bear front. Also, we still had 5 DBs playing mainly quarters behind it.
We then Stood up Whit outside the tackle and had Perk stand up outside the tackle. It was a bear front with Penn in the middle. It presented a lot of issues with a combination of blitzes and simulated pressures while also giving us the ability to stop the run due to the bear front. Also, we still had 5 DBs playing mainly quarters behind it.
Posted on 9/13/24 at 8:18 am to misey94
quote:
Let me be very clear- I am NOT advocating for Baker to switch us to 3-3-5 as a base defense.
Prepare yourself.
I think that’s basically what’s going to happen.
Posted on 9/13/24 at 9:05 am to misey94
quote:
of the run game that he’s struggling with as an MLB.
Perkins isn't playing MLB. Stop the madness. This nonsense is in every Perkins thread.
Posted on 9/13/24 at 9:07 am to poncho villa
quote:
this isn't ncaa 25 335 Tite don't work IRl
Almost every single team in college football will get a Tite front at some point this season. It's not an every down defense.
Posted on 9/13/24 at 8:29 pm to coachbleu
quote:
What advantage did Guillory give us? Have you seen his stats for this season? For his career? I’m sad for the kid. It sucks he got hurt. But he was NOT a good player, now or ever. He couldn’t one-gap, much less play a 2-gap (sometimes) NG position.
I don’t know what you were looking at in the USC game, but he absolutely did his job. He ate blocks and space to free others up to make plays. His size would make a 3 man front a little easier to run. If you can’t understand that, then I don’t know what to tell you.
Posted on 9/13/24 at 8:45 pm to Madking
quote:
We’re already playing with a nose guard anyway so how would it change?
Technically we are playing a 1 technique at the defensive guard, but I get your point. We have 3 down lineman and one stand up lineman/jack linebacker.
This post was edited on 9/13/24 at 8:46 pm
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