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Started By
Message
A perspective on tanking
Posted on 3/11/25 at 11:24 am
Posted on 3/11/25 at 11:24 am
7
Posted on 3/11/25 at 11:26 am to bstaceyau19
stop it. when you tank, you can win a super bowl in 3 yrs.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 11:34 am to bstaceyau19
Dealing with the can kicking =/= "tanking"
As stated earlier today:
The primary issue is there isn't a real likely benefit from these "win now" moves. We're mid at best and still behind Tampa and Atlanta in our shitty division. To even be a playoff team, we need lots of luck for us and lots of bad luck for both ATL and Tampa.
It just doesn't make sense.
As stated earlier today:
quote:
Tanking implies we are doing this for a draft reason. That's not what I'm saying. The metaphor is "taking our medicine" or "paying for our sins". This isn't about intentionally being bad to gain something from it. This is about un-fricking our cap situation and paying for all the can kicking.
We can either deal with it and be in a competitive cap situation or start every year with 1 arm behind our backs.
The primary issue is there isn't a real likely benefit from these "win now" moves. We're mid at best and still behind Tampa and Atlanta in our shitty division. To even be a playoff team, we need lots of luck for us and lots of bad luck for both ATL and Tampa.
It just doesn't make sense.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 11:38 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It just doesn't make sense.
Does it really matter? Trying to lose is trying to lose, regardless if it's to gain draft picks or to alter the accounting in regards to the salary cap. It's still trying to lose.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 11:39 am to bstaceyau19
quote:
Does it really matter? Trying to lose is trying to lose
It's not "trying to lose"
It's admitting what we are in order to become better.
quote:
or to alter the accounting in regards to the salary cap. It's still trying to lose.
Your strategy is to cap us as a non-playoff team because you don't want us to admit bad management put us in a shitty place.
Again, that makes no sense, unless we're just giving up ever being good again.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 11:42 am to bstaceyau19
quote:
Does it really matter? Trying to lose is trying to lose, regardless if it's to gain draft picks or to alter the accounting in regards to the salary cap. It's still trying to lose.
You can still try to win while having a period of not bringing in expensive players and getting cap right though.
Now it’s going to require drafting well and developing young cheap players as depth through good coaching but that’s what good organizations like the packers, 9ers, eagles have been doing in the NFL.
This post was edited on 3/11/25 at 11:44 am
Posted on 3/11/25 at 11:45 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Again, that makes no sense, unless we're just giving up ever being good again.
I can just see that meeting with free agents, or the players on the team for that matter.
"We are trying to lose games here. We are building a team we know won't win games. But don't worry. We are doing it for the right reasons so that the guys who come after you will be better"
That will really give the players the warm fuzzy feeling about their team.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 11:54 am to bstaceyau19
quote:
"We are trying to lose games here. We are building a team we know won't win games. But don't worry. We are doing it for the right reasons so that the guys who come after you will be better"
What’s our current pitch to FAs? How’s that working out so far?
I don’t know why some of you don’t understand the difference in building vs. this kicking of the can system trying to continue something that’s been broken for years.
You’re happy with how things have been? This seems to be working for us?
This post was edited on 3/11/25 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 3/11/25 at 11:58 am to bstaceyau19
Tiki the Hero.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 12:49 pm to bstaceyau19
We already know who’s offended by this lol.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 12:55 pm to bstaceyau19
quote:
You don’t try to lose, dude,” Barber said. And he was just getting started. “That’s the most ridiculous phone call I’ve ever heard in my life. No player or coach is ever going to try to lose a football game. And if someone calls this station again and says they should lose a game I’m hanging up on you and banning you from the station. It is the stupidest, most ridiculous thing I’ve ever freakin’ heard. So stop saying ‘lose games, lose games so you can draft higher.’ The draft is not a guarantee. Rookies suck too by the way. So forget thinking you’re’ going to change your franchise by losing games. It doesn’t work that way, because you end up firing people, everybody has a negative connotation about the organization, free agents don’t come, and it all starts because you want to lose one game.”
Facts. Especially the end about losing teams being losers over and over. Perputually sucking. Losing culture etc.
quote:
But Barber’s wider point is that losing isn’t just about accumulating draft picks, it’s about building a culture that becomes accustomed to losing with no way out. And you don’t have to look far across the NFL landscape for the evidence of that conviction – just look at anyone who has ever played quarterback for the Chicago Bears or Cleveland Browns in the modern era. And with the Giants in freefall, they may become the next in line.
Tikki said a mouthful! Lol.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 1:00 pm to BilJ
quote:
You’re happy with how things have been? This seems to be working for us?
No, but the solution is not losing more games with a lesser roster on the hopes of improving 2-3 years from now. And, asking players or coaches to do that for the benefit of the next group of players or coaches is asinine. No one in their right mind would ever sign on for such a thing.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 1:05 pm to bstaceyau19
quote:
but the solution is not losing more games with a lesser roster on the hopes of improving 2-3 years from now.
It absolutely can be (albeit not intentionally…it’s more a byproduct of commitment to the roster building process). All “lesser” rosters aren’t created equal just like all “better” ones aren’t.
I don’t think anyone is TRYING to purposefully construct a LESSER roster.
You’re trying to construct a BETTER roster that is sustainable for the better part of a decade. That may constitute a few years of ultimately better players getting their feet wet as they enter the league. Maybe they lose year one to a more veteran team but by year 3-4 they’re kicking the shite out of them.
That’s not going to occur through can kicking and piecemealing players together for short term gain unless you have a truly elite difference making QB leading your team. That’s going to happen by hitting on multiple draft picks in multiple drafts.
You’re going to take some lumps for a few years. But overspending at the expense of a win or two per year early in the process isn’t the solution.
It’s going to take some patience but most good things do unless you luck into a franchise changer like Jayden Daniels or someone like that.
This post was edited on 3/11/25 at 1:15 pm
Posted on 3/11/25 at 1:16 pm to St Augustine
quote:
You’re going to take some lumps for a few years. But overspending at the expense of a win or two per year early in the process isn’t the solution.
Take some lumps or……
quote:
about building a culture that becomes accustomed to losing with no way out. And you don’t have to look far across the NFL landscape for the evidence of that conviction – just look at anyone who has ever played quarterback for the Chicago Bears or Cleveland Browns in the modern era.
These teams been taking some serious lumps lol.
This post was edited on 3/11/25 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 3/11/25 at 1:16 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The primary issue is there isn't a real likely benefit from these "win now" moves. We're mid at best and still behind Tampa and Atlanta in our shitty division. To even be a playoff team, we need lots of luck for us and lots of bad luck for both ATL and Tampa. It just doesn't make sense.
I dont agree with most of yiur tskes. But this one is correct. Loomis is just bailing water on the titanic at this point.
Doesn’t matter what he does, the ship will still sink.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 1:19 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Dealing with the can kicking =/= "tanking"
I agree with you. Putting yourself in a better financial and roster situation is not tanking. You don't have to bottom out and just field a team of UDFAs.
But you can take your medicine for a year or so and get in a better cap situation to give yourself more flexibility
Posted on 3/11/25 at 1:19 pm to P bean
quote:
it’s about building a culture that becomes accustomed to losing with no way out.
This is our current culture.
What "winning culture" have we shown the past 4 years?
quote:
the end about losing teams being losers over and over.
2024
2023
2022
2021
and over and over
Posted on 3/11/25 at 1:23 pm to P bean
quote:
Losing culture etc.
How many seasons of missing the playoffs does it take for us to have a losing culture?
Asking for a friend
Posted on 3/11/25 at 1:24 pm to Fun Bunch
What makes this even more absurd is that 2 teams in our own division ate their shite over an offseason and came out ahead of us.
Tampa did it and still won the division
Hell, ATL may be doing that again and still end up better than us with no long-term impingements and a better long-term outlook.
Tampa did it and still won the division
Hell, ATL may be doing that again and still end up better than us with no long-term impingements and a better long-term outlook.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 1:31 pm to SlowFlowPro
You, remember when everyone thought Tampa was tanking by signing Baker to a cheap deal and cleaning up their cap after signing Brady and all of his friends for their run?
How many division titles have they won since then?
How many division titles have they won since then?
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