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Started By
Message
On Trump and the First Amendment.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 8:34 am
Posted on 3/13/25 at 8:34 am
My three favorite journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald, Mate) are skewering MAGA over this.
LINK
Aaron Mate with Judge Napolitano.
quote:
I knew the “If Trump Blows it on Speech, the World is Screwed” piece LINK would get a hostile reaction, particularly from two groups: a slice of hardcore Trump supporters, and trolling Democrats.
The former are all making one or the other version of the same argument that foreigners don’t have the same speech rights that we do, that green cards are a deal a foreign-born person makes with the government and like visas they can be revoked if that deal is broken, and so on. As I say in the piece, that may or may not be true, depending on how much you want to lean into a Bush-era alteration to the law making any alien who “endorses or espouses” terrorist activity eligible for deportation. But I spent years in this space, from well before the Twitter Files on, talking about how these Bush-era ideas creating sliding scales of rights for anyone subjectively judged to be linked to terrorism were turned on Americans. Everyone focused on the who, no one focused on the how, and we know how that turned out:
quote:
Conservatives were properly outraged that they were censored, put on watch lists, and given massive sentences for pittance offenses based on some federal official’s determination that they were “linked” or “tied” to “interference” or “domestic violent extremism.” Trump supporters also howled, correctly, when Adam Schiff schemed at the end of the Mueller probe to make “disloyalty to country” a domestic crime. These punitive concepts were wrong because they were deliberately vague and therefore irrefutable. If no one ever has to justify why someone was booted offline or debanked or given jail terms for the equivalent of trespassing, the charges become impossible to answer. All of this made people feel helpless and angry.
Now those same processes are fine again, so long as the targets are masses of foreign visitors, even ones with papers who haven’t been charged with any crime. What’s worse is that the standard response to criticisms of Trump-style immigration policies over the years has been that no one is against immigration per se, just illegal immigration. Most people who say that seem sincere about it. But that position is hard to take seriously in someone who now also supports deportation of people who come here legally and haven’t committed a crime. It’s especially mind-boggling given the mechanism targeting this new group is just another version of the unanswerable, subjective, often computerized standard deployed against conservatives in recent years. The difference is the people singled out as examples will be people like Khalil and not, say, Brandon Straka.
The other critics are Democratic trolls who say, “Whatever led you to believe Trump was going to protect speech?” Well, I listed many things, from Trump and Vance campaigning on it, to them bringing censored people whom I personally know to care about the issue into government, to confronting Europe on the matter at potentially significant cost. But, none of that is the point. Those clucking now about Trump and civil liberties are mostly all people who’ve refused to admit the people they voted for pose any threat at all, let alone the monster that’s already turned most of Europe into a police state. If you don’t admit what the choices were and are, you’re trolling.
Whether you think he will or not, the world needs Trump to hold some kind of line on these issues. Either way, we have to talk about it, don’t we?
LINK
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here. quote:
Did MAGA vote for Israel First?
In targeting a Palestinian graduate of Columbia University for deportation without charge, the Trump admin engages in Russiagate-style defamation.
Aaron Mate with Judge Napolitano.
24
Posted on 3/13/25 at 8:38 am to Bunk Moreland
Do green card holders have a right to be here?
Posted on 3/13/25 at 8:40 am to Bunk Moreland
I'm not caught up on this story, but didn't the person in question do a little more than simply hold a sign or chant a slogan?
Posted on 3/13/25 at 8:42 am to jbdawgs03
quote:
Do green card holders have a right to be here?
No. And especially not if they lied on their green card application, and ESPECIALLY not if they are screaming about death to america and global intifada. Terrorists have no "right" to be here.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 8:42 am to Bunk Moreland
Non citizens are not granted any rights. They are guests in this country. Plain and simple.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 8:44 am to jbdawgs03
They do not and if they have one, you simply stay out of trouble.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 8:45 am to Bunk Moreland
U.S. citizens should get the most free speech
There should be something special and desirable about being an American citizen or it doesn't mean anything different than being from any other place.
There should be something special and desirable about being an American citizen or it doesn't mean anything different than being from any other place.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 8:49 am to Trauma14
quote:
Non citizens are not granted any rights. They are guests in this country. Plain and simple.
Facts, and they should behave as guests. Just like I might put my feet up on the couch at my house, but if I am a guest in your home, I don't do that.
There are regulations about what people with a Green Card are allowed to do, and protesting is not allowed from my understanding.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 8:51 am to Bunk Moreland
Greenwald is responsible for the mess in Brazil and why based Ballz Balsonaro might be going away forever for nothing
All because he was scared.
Hes a little weasel and Tabbi is just a dork
All because he was scared.
Hes a little weasel and Tabbi is just a dork
Posted on 3/13/25 at 8:56 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:Yes. I don't give a shite about foreigners. It's not their country. It's ours. They can get the frick out if they don't like it.
Now those same processes are fine again, so long as the targets are masses of foreign visitors.
(Also, to hell with the "if we do what they did to us, we'll be as bad as they are" thing. We always agree to play by rules that only apply to us. While we're putting on our boxing gloves and reading the rule book, they hit us in the head with a 2×4.)
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:01 am to BamaMamaof2
quote:
protesting is not allowed from my understanding.
Where did you get THAT understanding? It's not the act of protesting. It's the content of the protesting that is under scrutiny.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:06 am to jbdawgs03
quote:
Do green card holders have a right to be here?
Yes. They have been granted permanent residence under American law.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:06 am to Bunk Moreland
So fricking tired of the idiocy on this issue.
1. You are entitled to first amendment protection for your speech, from the government.
2. You are not umbrella shielded for all other problems you cause as a result of that.
For example, you protest Israel. Ok you get protection for that. Then you go rough up a Jewish student, or occupy a building that you don't have permisions to be in. YOU ARE NOT PROTECTED from due process for the second act.
If you are on a green card or other non-citizen status, there is a good chance they can boot you for #2, so it's important to keep your act clean.
1. You are entitled to first amendment protection for your speech, from the government.
2. You are not umbrella shielded for all other problems you cause as a result of that.
For example, you protest Israel. Ok you get protection for that. Then you go rough up a Jewish student, or occupy a building that you don't have permisions to be in. YOU ARE NOT PROTECTED from due process for the second act.
If you are on a green card or other non-citizen status, there is a good chance they can boot you for #2, so it's important to keep your act clean.
This post was edited on 3/13/25 at 9:07 am
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:06 am to SallysHuman
quote:
I'm not caught up on this story, but didn't the person in question do a little more than simply hold a sign or chant a slogan?
Yes, he violently took over buildings during which innocent people were assaulted and held hostage. He in engaged in activities that denied other students their right to attend classes without being harassed or assaulted.
Anyone trying to claim this guy was just exercising free speech is a liar or a moron.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:09 am to jbdawgs03
quote:
Do green card holders have a right to be here?
What a stupid question. Thats the purpose of the green card.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:10 am to TenWheelsForJesus
quote:
Anyone trying to claim this guy was just exercising free speech is a liar or a moron.
That's what I figured. Screw those trying to make this a free speech issue.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:11 am to RogerTheShrubber
Here you and your leftist buddy @Tboy give this a watch. Rubio commenting on visa and green card holders
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:12 am to Bunk Moreland
I read all that and watched the twatter vid. It's a bit peculiar to me how we can allow someone to live in the United States as a "permanent US resident" and not grant them the same rights as a US citizen.
The government is essentially saying that you can live and work here the rest of your life but you will live under a set of diluted rights.
I'm all for deporting this guy, just so long as there's documented proof he's committed a crime or there's irrefutable evidence he supports Hamas. In the absence of those things (and I can't find them anywhere) I don't endorse this at all.
Maybe the Government has something on this guy the rest of us don't know about, we'll see. The last four years however have taught me to be a free speech absolutist, and I'm perfectly fine extending that to a permanent US resident.
The government is essentially saying that you can live and work here the rest of your life but you will live under a set of diluted rights.
I'm all for deporting this guy, just so long as there's documented proof he's committed a crime or there's irrefutable evidence he supports Hamas. In the absence of those things (and I can't find them anywhere) I don't endorse this at all.
Maybe the Government has something on this guy the rest of us don't know about, we'll see. The last four years however have taught me to be a free speech absolutist, and I'm perfectly fine extending that to a permanent US resident.
This post was edited on 3/13/25 at 1:37 pm
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:13 am to jbdawgs03
quote:
Here you and your leftist buddy
You dont have to be leftist to understand that a green card gives them the right to be in this country, boy
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:15 am to RogerTheShrubber
It doesn’t. But have no fear this particular issue won’t have any impact on the government assistance you receive to survive
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