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Message
re: 1908 national championship
Posted on 2/3/26 at 7:14 am to MikeTheTiger71
Posted on 2/3/26 at 7:14 am to MikeTheTiger71
You clearly don’t follow ncaa.com listings. I posted the NCAA National Champions which are claimed by the NCAA and you refuse to follow facts.
LINK
LINK
Also, read your own link. UCF was not listed as a National Champions. This is why they are listed:
“ In years where a “major selector” had a team
other than the CFP champion as highest
ranked team in its final poll that team is listed below the CFP Champion.”
This is also the reason Alabama was listed in 2016 below Clemson (National Champions).
LINK
LINK
Also, read your own link. UCF was not listed as a National Champions. This is why they are listed:
“ In years where a “major selector” had a team
other than the CFP champion as highest
ranked team in its final poll that team is listed below the CFP Champion.”
This is also the reason Alabama was listed in 2016 below Clemson (National Champions).
This post was edited on 2/3/26 at 8:19 am
1
Posted on 2/3/26 at 8:12 am to DeafVallyBatnR
Yep, remember that as well. Went to plenty games back then and they were still up with Dad and I went to the Ole Miss game in 1982
Posted on 2/3/26 at 9:27 am to BigNastyTiger417
quote:
Unsure, but here are the details of each 1908 team. We were clearly the better team.
Pennsylvania = the Quakers compiled an 11–0–1 record, shut out seven of twelve opponents, and outscored all opponents by a total of 215 to 28.
LSU = The Tigers were coached by Edgar Wingard and posted a perfect 10–0 record, outscoring opponents 442 to 11.
…. LSU outscored its opponents 442 - 11 !!!
While I agree it would be cool for them to add the 1908 season, I believe the issue has always been the schedule LSU played. Typically teams in the north and northeast played tougher schedules because they had more established colleges with longer standing football teams.
LSU 1908 schedule:
Young Men's Gymnastic Club-New Orleans (N/A) W 41–0
Jackson Barracks-New Orleans (N/A) W 81–5
Texas A&M (3-5) W 26–0
Southwestern Presbyterian (N/A) W 55–0
Auburn (6-1) W 10–2
Mississippi A&M (3-4) W 50–0
Baylor (3-5) W 89–0
Haskell (3-5-1) W 32–0
Louisiana Industrial (4-3-1) W 22–0
at Arkansas (5-4) W 36-4
The first two games were not even against colleges. The Young Men's Gymnastic Club of New Orleans is the present day New Orleans Athletic Club. Jackson Barracks was an army base and today is home to the Louisiana National Guard. The biggest game of the season was Auburn and LSU was able to get out of that game with a massive 10-2 victory. The rest of the schools on the schedule were a list of no namers in the world of 1908 college football.
Penn's schedule:
West Virginia (5-3) W 6–0
Ursinus (N/A) W 30–0
Bucknell (3-5-2) W 16–0
Villanova (1-6) W 11–0
Penn State (5-5) W 6–0
Gettysburg (6-2) W 23–4
#12 Brown (5-3-1) W 12–0
#6 Carlisle (10-2-1) T 6–6
Carnegie Tech (3-7) W 25–10
#20 Lafayette (6-2-2) W 34–4
#16 Michigan (5-2-1) W 29–0
#5 Cornell (7-1-1) W 17-4
The Carlisle team Penn played had Jim Thorpe as half back and was coached by the legendary Pop Warner.
This discussion without context is difficult. It's similar to how people viewed JMU and Tulane in the 12 team playoff this year. Yes they had good records, but they really didn't play with the big boys all year.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 9:52 am to BigNastyTiger417
quote:
You clearly don’t follow ncaa.com listings.
You are hard-headed, aren’t you? I KNOW the NCAA publishes that list. What you refuse to acknowledge is that they also publish 3 other lists in the NCAA Record Book that I have now linked for you twice. You are the one not following. Explain to me why the list you linked is valid, but the other lists in the NCAA Record Book I linked are not. It’s a simple question that you refuse to answer. You can’t just keep going back and saying, “But this link has LSU and not UCF.” I know that. That’s not true in the other source also published by the NCAA.
quote:
Also, read your own link. UCF was not listed as a National Champions. This is why they are listed: “ In years where a “major selector” had a team other than the CFP champion as highest ranked team in its final poll that team is listed below the CFP Champion.”
You are trying to make a distinction that the NCAA is not making here. They never say that the CFP Champion is the “National Champion” and a team chosen by another “major selector” is not. That’s been my point all along. The NCAA isn’t choosing sides or making “official” proclamations. They’re just presenting information. We are in 100% agreement that UCF was not a legitimate national champion in 2017. Where the argument breaks down here is that the NCAA still lists them as the champion of a “major selector”. That leaves you with two choices. Either you decide that any team listed by the NCAA is a national champion (including 2017 UCF) or you acknowledge that simply being included on a list of champions published by the NCAA does not confer legitimacy on a claim to being national champions.
This post was edited on 2/3/26 at 9:53 am
Posted on 2/3/26 at 10:55 am to lsutiger74
If the Heisman trophy existed in 1908, then Doc Fenton would have undoubtedly won it. He is the first great LSU football player.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:18 am to crotiger0307
quote:
It’s no different than not recognizing 2003 because it was a “split” (chicken shite) champion.
It is VERY different. LSU has a trophy for 2003, awarded at the end of the season. No one awarded LSU a national championship trophy at the end of the 1908 season.
It's all abut the hardware.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:57 am to MikeTheTiger71
UCF was the highest ranked team in another sector. They are not listed as as National Champions in any form listed from the NCAA (according to your list ) and the multiple NCAA links I have provided. Same as 2016 Alabama.
Point proven.
Point proven.
This post was edited on 2/3/26 at 12:16 pm
Posted on 2/3/26 at 12:37 pm to BigNastyTiger417
quote:
UCF was the highest ranked team in another sector. They are not listed as as National Champions in any form listed from the NCAA (according to your list ) and the multiple NCAA links I have provided. Same as 2016 Alabama.
Go to page 112 of the NCAA Record Book. The header for the list of teams chosen by each selector is “NATIONAL CHAMPION MAJOR SELECTIONS (1896 TO PRESENT)”. That’s the context of that list. The selectors are defined as selectors of National Champions. I know you are trying really hard to differentiate a list that includes LSU from lists that include selections you don’t like, but there is no meaningful difference in the way the NCAA presents them. You just cannot use NCAA “recognition” to legitimize a claim in 1908 for LSU without opening the door for dozens of other claims similarly “recognized” by the NCAA. I’m not saying there aren’t other ways to make that case, but the NCAA isn’t one of them.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 2:03 pm to MikeTheTiger71
Their name literally has an asterisk next to it. The same page also explains the asterisk. Your opinion doesn’t negate the fact that the NCAA does not claim UCF as a National Champion. UCF claims themselves to be a National Champion.
Note: see both NCAA links I have provided.
Note: see both NCAA links I have provided.
This post was edited on 2/3/26 at 2:05 pm
Posted on 2/3/26 at 2:34 pm to BigNastyTiger417
quote:
Their name literally has an asterisk next to it. The same page also explains the asterisk.
Yes, to explain what selector chose the team. There is no asterisk next to the section heading saying “National Champion Selections”. You are engaging in all kinds of mental gymnastics to try to hold onto an untenable position. It’s a list of national championships selections from various selectors the NCAA chose for informational purposes. There is no implied endorsement or recognition for any of the lists, especially since they are all different.
quote:
Your opinion doesn’t negate the fact that the NCAA does not claim UCF as a National Champion.
The NCAA doesn’t claim any team as national champions. They just list who “major selectors” chose.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 2:41 pm to Harry Boutte
quote:
It's all abut the hardware.
So just wipe all championships before 1998?
Posted on 2/3/26 at 6:04 pm to vidtiger23
quote:
So just wipe all championships before 1998?
Why would you throw out the 1958 national championship trophies awarded by both the AP and UPI?
LSU has trophies for 1958, they have none for 1908 because no one at the time thought they were national champions.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 7:58 pm to MikeTheTiger71
Wrong yet again. The NCAA lists National Champions (again, I’ve provided multiple links). Pay attention to details. UCF is not listed in 2017 just like Alabama is not listed in 2016.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 8:59 pm to BigNastyTiger417
quote:
The NCAA lists National Champions (again, I’ve provided multiple links). Pay attention to details. UCF is not listed in 2017 just like Alabama is not listed in 2016.
It doesn’t matter how many times you repeat the same thing and pretend I haven’t already addressed it, you have yet to refute the fact that the NCAA Record Book also has a list called NATIONAL CHAMPION MAJOR SELECTIONS (1896 TO PRESENT) that includes 2017 UCF, 1941 Alabama, and many other dubious national championship selections. You can try to assign meaning to asterisks and footnotes that isn’t there to fit your narrative, but you cannot erase the clear meaning the NCAA assigned to the list by the title they gave to the list. It’s a list of national champions. There is no ambiguity in that. Have you even addressed that? No, you just pretend I didn’t point that out and go back to your argument about the other links I have never disputed. It is also a list of national champions published by the NCAA. The problem you refuse to face is that the lists in the NCAA Record Book are also a list of national champions published by the NCAA. You see where we are now? You make a claim I have not disputed while I am presenting evidence you have not refuted or addressed. Until you disprove my point, your point has no meaning, because then you either have to accept that every champion on both lists is legitimate or you have to admit being on a list published by the NCAA has no implied legitimacy or authority. The legitimacy has to be established by some other means. So, unless or until you can show how a list of National Champion selections is not really a list of National Champion selections, then this discussion is over. You can go ahead and repeat your same inconsistent argument if you must, but I won’t waste any more time repeating the same counter-arguments I have already made multiple times.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:21 pm to lsutiger74
None of us were born in 1908. Let's talk 1962-- LSU finished #1 in at least one national poll. We must clain that title
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:31 pm to lsutiger74
I actually believe one of the players on that team won the Heisman…but nobody recognizes him either….
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:32 pm to MikeTheTiger71
1998 Tulane and 2004 Auburn were also the best at their craft, those respective years according to some football wags.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:41 pm to OU812
quote:
LSU was the first team outside of the north to win a national championship in 1908. A&M was the next one in 1919.
Do they claim 1919?
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:50 pm to Spankum
Doc Fenton
Posted on 2/4/26 at 12:01 am to Giantkiller
quote:
Do they claim 1919?
Yes, per Wikipedia
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