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re: Malachi Dupre carried off on stretcher
Posted on 8/11/17 at 12:18 pm to glaucon
Posted on 8/11/17 at 12:18 pm to glaucon
The fact is until they start fining RBs and WRs for dropping there head at the point of contact head to heads are gonna happen. It's instinct to take your eyes out of the line of fire on contact. The body only goes where the head goes when running that's the way it is. The defenseless rule is the only way to curb it without completely changing the game
0
Posted on 8/11/17 at 12:43 pm to ColeLSU
quote:
You dont want to see the crown leading, but thats part of my problem in this thread....everyon is acting like the guy targeted Chi's earhole and he didnt
You can't correct the problem if you first don't disallow the players from going in with that intent, regardless of where he ends up hitting him
Dude pinned his arms back and led with his helmet. Stop the frame and watch yourself
Posted on 8/11/17 at 1:13 pm to cas4t
quote:
Simply making the argument that the hit was undoubtedly illegal, and should be illegal, and it's asinine for anyone to even attempt to argue otherwise.
Hit ruled to be legal
quote:
There was no flag on this play because it wasn’t an illegal hit from Sullivan. It was vicious and brutal, for sure, but entirely legal.
Posted on 8/11/17 at 1:40 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
Hit ruled to be legal
That link is everything wrong with the league response to concussions.
Posted on 8/11/17 at 1:40 pm to TigerintheNO
In the context of the play that's football. That dude keeps smashing receivers he's gonna make a squad.
Posted on 8/11/17 at 1:49 pm to glaucon
quote:
That link is everything wrong with the league response to concussions.
I think it would be very easy to solve the problem with a more drastic rule change.
In addition to not leading with the crown of the helmet, simply require defenders to attempt to wrap up when making a tackle. Or they can make a play on the ball with their arms or hands.
That would prevent the launching and leading with their shoulder or head, when they're just trying to deliver a devastating blow without actually making a tackle or a play on the ball.
This change would lessen the force of the defensive hits but still allow hard hits. And it would bring us back to actual football plays, instead of just massive hits by guys that are much bigger and stronger than they were 30 years ago.
Posted on 8/11/17 at 2:02 pm to ColeLSU
quote:
Doesnt change the fact these guys on the field are trying like hell to make an impact and get a spot and take care of their families. Football is a contact sport.
I'm not sure what you're trying to argue at this point. I agree with all of this. I haven't said the hit was malicious; I even agreed that these things happen quickly.
But these rules have shifted the way tackling is taught, and with enough reps, it should become more natural for a player to not instinctively launch themselves leading with their helmet. Most don't anymore, actually.
Posted on 8/11/17 at 2:04 pm to TigerintheNO
are you quoting the announcers? I'm on a work computer, so the link could not be working. If so, announcers are consistently wrong, so I don't think that proves anything. Really all you need to do is read the rule and then watch the video.
Posted on 8/11/17 at 2:20 pm to cas4t
quote:
are you quoting the announcers? I'm on a work computer, so the link could not be working. If so, announcers are consistently wrong, so I don't think that proves anything. Really all you need to do is read the rule and then watch the video.
show me one article, one post, other than this thread that says the hit was illegal?
Posted on 8/11/17 at 2:31 pm to TigerintheNO
Lulz at you quoting the announcer. The league is likely looking at the play, and I would expect an announcement in the next day or two.
Posted on 8/11/17 at 2:37 pm to atltiger6487
Serious question--how common are concussions in rugby? More or less than American football?
Posted on 8/11/17 at 3:03 pm to cas4t
quote:
But these rules have shifted the way tackling is taught, and with enough reps, it should become more natural for a player to not instinctively launch themselves leading with their helmet. Most don't anymore, actually.
I Malachi Dupre appropriately defends himself on that play, he doesn't get knocked out, the hit doesn't look anywhere near as brutal, and most here don't even hesitate watching the play.
It looks bad because he let the guy get under his chin. It's like a boxer who fights with his chin in the air. Identical punches have totally different results.
That play wasn't malicious and no reasonable rule would prevent it from happening.
Posted on 8/11/17 at 3:20 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
show me one article, one post, other than this thread that says the hit was illegal?
really?
numerous sports talking heads blew twitter all to frick about it. You can google yourself.
here's 1 of many
LINK
But again, even if they didn't, it's pretty simple.
Step 1: read the rule
Step 2: watch the video
Step 3: re-read the rule
Posted on 8/11/17 at 3:25 pm to cas4t
quote:
are you quoting the announcers? I'm on a work computer, so the link could not be working. If so, announcers are consistently wrong, so I don't think that proves anything. Really all you need to do is read the rule and then watch the video.
No I wasn't quoting the announcer, but the announcer was correct, it isn't a helmet to helmet violation because he was runner.
The quote was from another site. Here is a quote from the Philly Voice
quote:
There's nothing wrong with that hit at all. That just a physical play on a player who was not defenseless
The rule is-
quote:
if a player illegally launches into a defenseless opponent. It is an illegal launch if a player
(1) leaves both feet prior to contact to spring forward and upward into his opponent, and
(2) uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) to initiate forcible contact against any part of his opponent’s body.
Note: This does not apply to contact against a runner, unless the runner is still considered to be a defenseless player, as defined in Rule 12, Section 2, Article 9.
Now go back and watch the video, Dupre caught the ball at the 24 yard line, the hit occurred on the 15 yard line. He was a runner not a defenseless player, that is why no flag was thrown.
Posted on 8/11/17 at 3:30 pm to TigerintheNO
If that hit is illegal then they need to start playing flag football in the NFL. Thats how you tackle with head up. Clearly a legal hit.
Posted on 8/11/17 at 6:24 pm to purplengold1
Dayum
Posted on 8/11/17 at 10:38 pm to Double Oh
quote:
Thats how you tackle with head up.
Except his head is straight down, leading with the crown.
Posted on 8/12/17 at 12:18 am to wilceaux
Stupid conversation. That DB cleaned his arse up with zero yards after contact, the name of the game. People don't make millions playing cribbbage, the reality of football
Posted on 8/12/17 at 12:43 am to DTRooster
Note 1: "Targeting" means that a player takes aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with forcible contact that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball. Some indicators of targeting include but are not limited to: Any ONE of These makes it Targeting
Launch—a player leaving his feet to attack an opponent by an upward and forward thrust of the body to make forcible contact in the head or neck area
A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area, even though one or both feet are still on the ground
Leading with helmet, shoulder, forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area
Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of the helmet - not limited to head and neck. Reuben Foster, Landon Collins, and Tony Brown are infamous for this.
Without Foster swinging and hitting Watson in the head in the 1st Qtr and then launching and hitting him when he was already in the grip of 2 tacklers...and Brown targeting Williams twice Clemson would have beaten Bama by 5 TDs. It took Watson 2 Qtrs to clear his head and Williams missed about half the game. Phuk Saban and his dirty players. And, if a WR has ALA beaten they just level him with a vicious hit and take a 15 yd penalty from the LOS, this is not PI - that should be an ejection and the ball at the spot of the flagrant foul plus 15 yds. Plus the refs stopped play too many times and stopped Clemson Tempo.
Foster was flagged with a personal foul penalty while some thought the hit should have been considered targeting. Either way, that's the type of penalty Alabama is willing to live with. Saban had Foster send a message that slowed Watson for the rest of the game. Fifteen yards is something the coaches will take as a result. Dirty play is Saban's calling card.
LINK
The lack of consistency involving targeting has been maddening all season. In the previous drive, Alabama quarterback Jalen Hurts drew a roughing the passer penalty on Clemson from a slap to his helmet. That penalty was nowhere as egregious as either Foster’s clothesline or Averett’s demolition of Williams.
Foster wearing a Cowboy Collar knocks LSU Fournette out of game in 2014. Foster's trademark.
This was the most vicious hit he ever took, was listless and had fallen to his right on the sideline right after Collins hit him with a 20 yd head of steam at the LOS. With only 1 sec on the clock before OT, LF should have sat out. After the Foster hit he was out for ARK and the bye week.
Launch—a player leaving his feet to attack an opponent by an upward and forward thrust of the body to make forcible contact in the head or neck area
A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area, even though one or both feet are still on the ground
Leading with helmet, shoulder, forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area
Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of the helmet - not limited to head and neck. Reuben Foster, Landon Collins, and Tony Brown are infamous for this.
Without Foster swinging and hitting Watson in the head in the 1st Qtr and then launching and hitting him when he was already in the grip of 2 tacklers...and Brown targeting Williams twice Clemson would have beaten Bama by 5 TDs. It took Watson 2 Qtrs to clear his head and Williams missed about half the game. Phuk Saban and his dirty players. And, if a WR has ALA beaten they just level him with a vicious hit and take a 15 yd penalty from the LOS, this is not PI - that should be an ejection and the ball at the spot of the flagrant foul plus 15 yds. Plus the refs stopped play too many times and stopped Clemson Tempo.
Foster was flagged with a personal foul penalty while some thought the hit should have been considered targeting. Either way, that's the type of penalty Alabama is willing to live with. Saban had Foster send a message that slowed Watson for the rest of the game. Fifteen yards is something the coaches will take as a result. Dirty play is Saban's calling card.
LINK
quote:
Oh look, another missed targeting call.
The Big 12 referee crew missed two obvious targeting penalties in the first quarter of Monday night’s College Football Playoff National Championship Game as college football continues to inconsistently define targeting.
Early in the game, Alabama linebacker Reuben Foster used his forearm to nearly decapitate Clemson quarterback Deshaun Watson to the tune of no whistle.
Ouch. LINK
— Dr. Saturday (@YahooDrSaturday) January 10, 2017
Later in the quarter, as Alabama’s Anthony Averett held up Clemson receiver Mike Williams following a first-down catch, defensive back Tony Brown landed a skull-crushing hit on Clemson’s star receiver. Williams is familiar with head and spine injuries as he missed most of last season with a broken neck.
Targeting? pic.twitter.com/nFnczBbDpz
— Dr. Saturday (@YahooDrSaturday) January 10, 2017
Brown smashed an already-slowed Williams who went limp momentarily and appeared to black out. Williams fumbled the ball into his chest and recovered it as he regained consciousness. While the play was still live, Brown obviously launched himself causing head-to-head contact with Williams.
Again, no whistle.
Williams was taken off to sideline and appeared to be dazed, but returned to the field minutes later.
The lack of consistency involving targeting has been maddening all season. In the previous drive, Alabama quarterback Jalen Hurts drew a roughing the passer penalty on Clemson from a slap to his helmet. That penalty was nowhere as egregious as either Foster’s clothesline or Averett’s demolition of Williams.
Foster wearing a Cowboy Collar knocks LSU Fournette out of game in 2014. Foster's trademark.
This was the most vicious hit he ever took, was listless and had fallen to his right on the sideline right after Collins hit him with a 20 yd head of steam at the LOS. With only 1 sec on the clock before OT, LF should have sat out. After the Foster hit he was out for ARK and the bye week.
Posted on 8/12/17 at 12:47 am to Quid Pro Quo
Saban has his players try to knock out QBs, RBs, especially WRs who are open and in position to make a catch. He would rather take the 10-15 yd penalties. that are so insignificant where ALA is concerned, than give up a score. In 2013 Jeoffrey Pagan said Saban told him to step on "their necks so we can send in the subs".
Williams already missed last year with a broken neck. What will ultimately kill this sport is egregious, flagrant, fouls which result in injury or death. Record numbers of players are being disabled, electing not to play because of concussions, and the the guarantee of Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy.
Knocking Watson & Williams out of the game would guarantee Little Nicky his one last trophy.
BUT HE CAME UP A LITTLE SHORT
In his post game interview he had a melt similiar to the one he had after losing to Ohio State in the Sugar Bowl Semifinal:
Saban Melt after Ohio State Loss to a 3rd String QB making his 3rd start.
"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." -Nick Saban
— Natalie Pierre (@Natalie_Pierre) January 2, 2015
Williams already missed last year with a broken neck. What will ultimately kill this sport is egregious, flagrant, fouls which result in injury or death. Record numbers of players are being disabled, electing not to play because of concussions, and the the guarantee of Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy.
Knocking Watson & Williams out of the game would guarantee Little Nicky his one last trophy.
BUT HE CAME UP A LITTLE SHORT
In his post game interview he had a melt similiar to the one he had after losing to Ohio State in the Sugar Bowl Semifinal:
Saban Melt after Ohio State Loss to a 3rd String QB making his 3rd start.
"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." -Nick Saban
— Natalie Pierre (@Natalie_Pierre) January 2, 2015
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