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Message
re: Bregman to Cubs
Posted on 1/12/26 at 7:05 am to Lester Earl
Posted on 1/12/26 at 7:05 am to Lester Earl
quote:
uhh yes, that is what a good franchise would do if they aren't going to re-sign the guy, which just became way more unlikely with Bregman's contract.
You do realize how many players are coming off the books at the end of this year right? And Nico is younger than all of them and has a higher WAR than all of them. He's the top candidate among all to extend and IMHO the best option to extend.
quote:
Matt Shaw was worth 3.1 bWAR with 33% less plate appearances than Hoerner. You can't play both every day, so if you deal Hoerner and plug in Shaw, you aren't losing much.
Much more certainty right now in what Nico will bring than what Shaw will. I like Shaw's potential but that's all it is right now. You can lose a lot of games wishing an hoping on potential. Shaw's projected WAR for next year ranges from 1.5 to 2.9.
Nico is a gold glove 2nd baseman who steals a lot of bases, makes contact at a very high rate and hits with runners in scoring position at a high rate. I just ain't trading him for again, some mystery reliever when we just spend $20 million on bolstering the pen and we have a history of developing successfull bullpen pitchers that come from nowhere nearly every year. Go for it now - keep both and play both.
This post was edited on 1/12/26 at 7:09 am
0
Posted on 1/12/26 at 7:16 am to Lester Earl
quote:
es, plenty of teams would trade for Nico Hoerner.
Of course they would he's a 4 WAR player - but what you get back for one year for him and what you cost your team in terms of being able to compete for something tangible NOW in 2026 .....the juice just ain't worth the squeeze. Give me some names of relievers you think they could get and then tell me if you really believe that reliever with Shaw at second gives and no Nico gives us a better chance to win than Shaw as a super utility guy with Nico who can still get hundreds of at bats and a fourth outfielder.
Just give me a name of a reliever on any of those teams that you think the Cubs can get for a one year rental of Nico and I'll be glad to give my take on that hypothetical.
This post was edited on 1/12/26 at 7:23 am
Posted on 1/12/26 at 9:23 am to Wwarmouth
Posted on 1/12/26 at 9:46 am to Tiger Ugly
They should extend Nico if he’s so valuable to the team. The Cubs are setup to win the division but they are not primed to be a serious contender. If you’re not going to reup Nico you should trade him. There are contenders who are thirsty for a guy of his caliber - they don’t have a Shaw, they’re going to hit Nico at the top of their order, some could play him at short. All with intent to extend him like we hoped with Tucker
If Shaw l’s 2nd half is any indication then he’s going to be a fine replacement. 3-4 WAR guy who can still fill in around the INF. Nico could bring a RF, SP, RP - a serious contender isn’t playing Suzuki in RF and you still could use another swing and miss SP. They aren’t going to just deal Nico without getting what the want to address a need
I want to keep Nico but for one year? Move him
If Shaw l’s 2nd half is any indication then he’s going to be a fine replacement. 3-4 WAR guy who can still fill in around the INF. Nico could bring a RF, SP, RP - a serious contender isn’t playing Suzuki in RF and you still could use another swing and miss SP. They aren’t going to just deal Nico without getting what the want to address a need
I want to keep Nico but for one year? Move him
Posted on 1/12/26 at 10:32 am to Tiger Ugly
quote:
Just give me a name of a reliever on any of those teams that you think the Cubs can get for a one year rental of Nico and I'll be glad to give my take on that hypothetical.
I don’t really give a shite what your take is, or need you to verify if it’s a good idea or not
Trading him for value would be what a good franchise would do if you don’t re-sign him
Posted on 1/12/26 at 10:33 am to Lester Earl
But
Matt brash
George Kirby
Luis Gil
Just glancing as the type of profile you could target. Cheap, mid 20’s, Under control for multiple years
Matt brash
George Kirby
Luis Gil
Just glancing as the type of profile you could target. Cheap, mid 20’s, Under control for multiple years
This post was edited on 1/12/26 at 10:47 am
Posted on 1/12/26 at 11:36 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
I want to keep Nico but for one year? Move him
He had the second base F-war of any second baseman in baseball. unless anyone can tell me with any certainty that Shaw will be close to that - and no one can based on how up and down he was last year - I don't see the logic in hedging on that being the case - extend Nico.
Posted on 1/12/26 at 1:14 pm to Tiger Ugly
We will be ok trading down a point, point and a half of WAR at the expense of whatever Nico brings in return coupled with adding more pop to the lineup with Shaw.
Shaw has the pedigree, made a clean switch to 3B from SS. One would presume he can handle 2B. He was also good for 1.5 fWAR post ASB and posted the highest wRC+ (133) amongst 3B post ASB. For reference, Ketel Marte posted 1.5 fWAR and a 125 wRC+ at 2B post ASB, which were top 3 at the position in that timeframe.
I would love to lock in Hoerner and have your INF for the next 5 years. Shaw could be your zobrist type. I just think letting him walk after next season with no real return is a mistake
Shaw has the pedigree, made a clean switch to 3B from SS. One would presume he can handle 2B. He was also good for 1.5 fWAR post ASB and posted the highest wRC+ (133) amongst 3B post ASB. For reference, Ketel Marte posted 1.5 fWAR and a 125 wRC+ at 2B post ASB, which were top 3 at the position in that timeframe.
I would love to lock in Hoerner and have your INF for the next 5 years. Shaw could be your zobrist type. I just think letting him walk after next season with no real return is a mistake
Posted on 1/12/26 at 2:46 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
I don’t really give a shite what your take is, or need you to verify if it’s a good idea or not
Ouch Lester, just want to have a friendly debate. You think we are going to get a top level closer from one of those teams for Nico for a one year? If so which? I'm genuinely interested because outside that I don't see the point in trading the second best second baseman in baseball - extend him!
quote:
Trading him for value would be what a good franchise would do if you don’t re-sign him
I want to re-sign him! He's the youngest and highest WAR player of all the expiring contracts ending in 2026.
But I also want to win now - even if you don't re-sign him you better get real value - it's not always about 2032 like Carter Hawkins says - sometimes you have a window to compete now.
Posted on 1/12/26 at 3:18 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
We will be ok trading down a point, point and a half of WAR at the expense of whatever Nico brings in return coupled with adding more pop to the lineup with Shaw.
quote:
We will be ok trading down a point, point and a half of WAR at the expense of whatever Nico brings in return coupled with adding more pop to the lineup with Shaw.
yeah, trading just to trade if the value for what you get back is minimal - and it weakens your team this year is a wash for me. I don't think you throw away a great opportunity this year to try to look smart by getting something that may end up not being much. But I'm for extending Nico anyway and I think that's what the Cubs should do.
And I'm bullish on Shaw, but again Nico is certainty and pretty darn good relative to all second basemen in the MLB and Shaw was VERY up and down last year.
And if Nico chooses not to re-up he's an experienced option for Nico and we can use the money we were paying him to get something of value in the off-season next year that probably would be better than what we would get for trading him this year.
This post was edited on 1/12/26 at 3:23 pm
Posted on 1/12/26 at 4:31 pm to Tiger Ugly
quote:
trading just to trade if the value for what you get back is minima
quote:
and it weakens your team
No one ever said to make a deal that would weaken the team lol
Posted on 1/12/26 at 4:45 pm to Lester Earl
"No one ever said to make a deal that would weaken the team lol"
Of course not, but there's risk if you trade for a relief pitcher as you are suggesting. Relievers and notoriously volatile. The Cubs tried to sign the Dodgers closer last year - the No. 1 closer on the market and he STUNK for the Dodgers - 9 blown saves and 5 plus ERA.
Re-Sign Nico is better than trading - there's much more certainty.
Of course not, but there's risk if you trade for a relief pitcher as you are suggesting. Relievers and notoriously volatile. The Cubs tried to sign the Dodgers closer last year - the No. 1 closer on the market and he STUNK for the Dodgers - 9 blown saves and 5 plus ERA.
Re-Sign Nico is better than trading - there's much more certainty.
This post was edited on 1/12/26 at 5:00 pm
Posted on 1/12/26 at 5:11 pm to Tiger Ugly
quote:
The Cubs tried to sign the Dodgers closer last year - the No. 1 closer on the market
not even sure who you are talking about. "Closers" generally not even the best relief pitcher on a roster.
Are you talking about Ryan Pressly? Cause you know what is volatile; RHP relief pitchers who throw 93 like him.
quote:
Re-Sign Nico is better than trading - there's much more certainty.
I am not against re-signing him, but I am sure you understand that is not my argument.
You will still have:
6 years of Shaw
5 Years of Bregman
4 Years of Swanson
I am not sure you can have $100mil worth of infields who cannot slug over .450
This post was edited on 1/12/26 at 5:12 pm
Posted on 1/12/26 at 9:55 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
not even sure who you are talking about.
Tanner Scott. Cubs offered him 4/$66M, Dodgers got him at 4/$72M.
Posted on 1/13/26 at 6:59 am to Lester Earl
quote:
not even sure who you are talking about. "Closers" generally not even the best relief pitcher on a roster.
I think the use of the word generally here is debatable - regardless - Tanner Scott was the No. 1 free agent reliever in baseball last year, Closer or not and the Dodgers ended up using starters to close in the post season he was so ineffective, then got hurt. Relievers are highly volatile from year to year - closers, high leverage, middle relief....all of them...that's what I'm talking about.
quote]I am not against re-signing him, but I am sure you understand that is not my argument.
[/quote]
Well, you wrote that you wanted to trade him because it's common sense business to do so and Shaw was almost as good. I asked you if you wanted to trade Nico "Now" and you confirmed.
Whatever, I agree with you on not being against him being re-signed - as I've said several times in this thread. In fact I highly prefer it to any trade unless some team is extremely foolish and gives us crazy value for him - above what IMHO most any reliever would bring.
quote:
years of Shaw
5 Years of Bregman
4 Years of Swanson
I am not sure you can have $100mil worth of infields who cannot slug over .450
Cubs have 8 players coming off the books next year and Nico is younger with a higher WAR than all of them. Counting Nico that is $113 million dollars. They also have Busch on the infield who had a .523 slug (better than Freddie Freeman last year BTW), he's infield and still there and he's still on a rookie contract. And there's no world in which the Cubs are anyone is going to pay Nico anywhere close to $36 million, which is what it would take to be paying our infield $100 million, you did quite a round-up in the numbers there. $10 million can get you some good value.
If they pay him what Simien is getting paid as he is the highest paid second baseman in baseball $26 million - That would put our total infield salary including Busch at about $89 million and they are deferring some of Bregman's money the first few years so in reality not even that much.
Now they will not let all 8 of them walk but likely most of them. The rest will need to be replaced. 4 of the 8 are position players. Get slug at other positions in the offseason. Go for the best team you can put together in 2026 there's a good window here.
Posted on 1/13/26 at 10:29 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
Posted on 1/13/26 at 10:31 am to Tiger Ugly
quote:
wrote that you wanted to trade him because it's common sense business to do so and Shaw was almost as good.
If they don’t plan on re-signing him, of course it is the most logical business decision to do.
And they are well past the point of negotiating a reasonable contract for him.
Posted on 1/13/26 at 10:34 am to Lester Earl
I wonder if someone like a Whisenhunt would be coming back. ML ready back end starter or really good reliever depending on how you deploy him. Giants have a few starters that could be headed back
Posted on 1/13/26 at 10:38 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
Whisenhunt, birdsong, Tidwell
Gavin Kilen is a middle inf guy who could move fast
Gavin Kilen is a middle inf guy who could move fast
Posted on 1/13/26 at 10:39 am to Lester Earl
The most common trade partner mentioned for the Cardinals on Donovan has been Seattle, so I'm happy to see the Giants enter the mix. If only to have competition among suitors. The Mariners are unwilling to part with any pitchers that have MLB service time, it seems. And the Cardinals are setting a pretty high price for Donovan. He's not a must-move like Arenado is.
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