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re: DISCLAIMER* - AppleTV+ Discussion (spoilers)
Posted on 11/1/24 at 10:48 pm to dallastigers
Posted on 11/1/24 at 10:48 pm to dallastigers
What did you think of the phone call with Jonathan’s ex-gf’s mother? Her aunt dying was the convenient excuse for leaving the trip in the book, but I think the awkwardness of the call and Kline brushing it off points to something more sinister.
1
Posted on 11/2/24 at 1:18 am to Esquire
quote:
What did you think of the phone call with Jonathan’s ex-gf’s mother?
I think Jonathan might not have been the good and still relatively naive boy who was led astray by an older woman that his parents want to believe especially his mother. He may have a lot in common with the way his dad is currently taking things way too far.
This reminded of the Kline’s narrative when they went to ID the body when he was wondering why his son went out to save the boy as he never did stuff or put himself out there for others unless it benefited him or something like that.
EDIT to Add: The girlfriend (or ex) never speaking to the parents afterwards was kind of tossed aside by Kline’s narrative as possibly caused by the mom not telling her. The gf was going to find out regardless of hearing it from her mom or not. She was also an adult. For her to never go see the parents or talk to them afterwards has to be indicative on how bad his parents were to her or maybe of the severity of what he did to her to make her leave or both. Kline had mentioned previously the mother didn’t care for the gf, but not ever talking to them again after Jonathan’s death shows it went deeper.
This post was edited on 11/2/24 at 10:32 am
Posted on 11/7/24 at 10:19 pm to dallastigers
Finale was tonight. I’ll wait for someone else to watch before I give any spoilers.
Posted on 11/8/24 at 4:56 am to Esquire
I think it’s released today, 11/8. Friday.
I tried watching last night and it wasn’t out yet.
I tried watching last night and it wasn’t out yet.
Posted on 11/8/24 at 7:25 am to Esquire
(Mild spoiler)
I watched the finale and was a little disappointed because I felt that the series betrayed its own premise. For a story that warns you that it is going to tell the story unconventionally and from multiple points of view, in the end, we hear from one point of view, and it’s the absolute truth. As though her reckoning is perfect and should be trusted 100%. The show could have just saved us a lot of time if this is where we were going to end up.
Overall, I liked the show… especially the direction. But it leaves you with no questions at the end and it just seems too neatly wrapped, considering the mechanics of the storytelling.
I watched the finale and was a little disappointed because I felt that the series betrayed its own premise. For a story that warns you that it is going to tell the story unconventionally and from multiple points of view, in the end, we hear from one point of view, and it’s the absolute truth. As though her reckoning is perfect and should be trusted 100%. The show could have just saved us a lot of time if this is where we were going to end up.
Overall, I liked the show… especially the direction. But it leaves you with no questions at the end and it just seems too neatly wrapped, considering the mechanics of the storytelling.
Posted on 11/8/24 at 9:00 am to SpqrTiger
Yeah, I think they missed it a bit with the ending.
I think it should have been left a bit more ambiguous as to what really happened.
For the record, I think Catherine is just the worst person ever and full of it. Pulls out the rape card years later only when in the most dire of situations. Husband says he’s sorry (shouldn’t have had to) yet as he pointed out, she never told him and even when he finds out and is pissed off she doesn’t tell him, but it’s his fault and she wants a divorce.
What did the son say in the hospital that all of the sudden gets Stephen to just believe Catherine all of the sudden. Maybe I missed it, just sounded like he was saying mom. I’ll have to go back and listen.
I think it should have been left a bit more ambiguous as to what really happened.
For the record, I think Catherine is just the worst person ever and full of it. Pulls out the rape card years later only when in the most dire of situations. Husband says he’s sorry (shouldn’t have had to) yet as he pointed out, she never told him and even when he finds out and is pissed off she doesn’t tell him, but it’s his fault and she wants a divorce.
What did the son say in the hospital that all of the sudden gets Stephen to just believe Catherine all of the sudden. Maybe I missed it, just sounded like he was saying mom. I’ll have to go back and listen.
This post was edited on 11/8/24 at 9:03 am
Posted on 11/8/24 at 11:01 am to wareaglepete
quote:
Husband says he’s sorry (shouldn’t have had to) yet as he pointed out, she never told him and even when he finds out and is pissed off she doesn’t tell him, but it’s his fault and she wants a divorce.
I was with you until she said, "you were more relieved that I was raped than if I'd had an affair."
Posted on 11/8/24 at 11:21 am to HueyLongJr
Looking back, they really spoiled it with the sexual assault disclaimer at the start of every episode. It didn’t even click for me until I started the last episode and realized they had been warning about a rape scene all season and we had yet to see it.
Not the best ending, but I still enjoyed the ride. Even if it makes me feel like a terrible person.
Not the best ending, but I still enjoyed the ride. Even if it makes me feel like a terrible person.
Posted on 11/8/24 at 8:11 pm to Esquire
The ending was just so typical. Nothing new or amazing here. I was on the fence, but the more I think about it, they Stephen Kinged the hell out of the ending.
Posted on 11/8/24 at 9:39 pm to wareaglepete
Very well done overall. Highly recommend
Posted on 11/9/24 at 3:02 pm to Rouxdee
That ending was absolute garbage. But…young Catherine is fine as frog hair and I hope to see more of her work in the future.
Posted on 11/12/24 at 12:04 am to Flowbe209
I just finished it. I didn’t like the ending.
They bring up he had to have known something about son, but it wasn’t enough for me on top of then creating the drama of slow motion race to kill Nicholas or save him when just hearing “mum” makes Kline do a 180.
Who’s to say she is not lying now. They just all jump on the “believe her” mantra with Kline’s 180. She had time to come up with a convincing story, and she is a reporter.
The husband is now a bad guy for seeing the pictures and believing the book his wife didn’t deny and actually implied it was true. If She says early on after book and pictures sent that it was rape the husband would have acted differently and listened. She choose to continue to hold that back until she realized Kline wanted to murder her son. That was what finally got her to admit the truth not her marriage problems including the pain her husband had thinking she had cheated, not her son OD’ing, not having work reputation ruined, not being a bad mother to her son for 20 years, and so on.
And of course a husband is going to be less angry at wife after finally being told she was raped instead of being a whore and a cheat like she led him to believe. It’s stupid Catherine couldn’t forgiven him. She is back to being a bitch. Victim or not the conflict with her husband and how that let Kline get to her work and to her son was because she was too prideful to tell her husband the truth once the pictures and book came into play. Too prideful to tell work book was fiction while just leaving out the rape for now or until she was ready. She did nothing.
Bad endings ruin the journey for me. I like to see how they are going to put it together and have it make sense.
Rape scene ruined the magic of episode 3. Still is a hot scene by itself, but now the rape overshadows the book’s version.
They bring up he had to have known something about son, but it wasn’t enough for me on top of then creating the drama of slow motion race to kill Nicholas or save him when just hearing “mum” makes Kline do a 180.
Who’s to say she is not lying now. They just all jump on the “believe her” mantra with Kline’s 180. She had time to come up with a convincing story, and she is a reporter.
The husband is now a bad guy for seeing the pictures and believing the book his wife didn’t deny and actually implied it was true. If She says early on after book and pictures sent that it was rape the husband would have acted differently and listened. She choose to continue to hold that back until she realized Kline wanted to murder her son. That was what finally got her to admit the truth not her marriage problems including the pain her husband had thinking she had cheated, not her son OD’ing, not having work reputation ruined, not being a bad mother to her son for 20 years, and so on.
And of course a husband is going to be less angry at wife after finally being told she was raped instead of being a whore and a cheat like she led him to believe. It’s stupid Catherine couldn’t forgiven him. She is back to being a bitch. Victim or not the conflict with her husband and how that let Kline get to her work and to her son was because she was too prideful to tell her husband the truth once the pictures and book came into play. Too prideful to tell work book was fiction while just leaving out the rape for now or until she was ready. She did nothing.
Bad endings ruin the journey for me. I like to see how they are going to put it together and have it make sense.
Rape scene ruined the magic of episode 3. Still is a hot scene by itself, but now the rape overshadows the book’s version.
This post was edited on 11/12/24 at 4:50 am
Posted on 11/12/24 at 11:08 am to dallastigers
quote:
I just finished it. I didn’t like the ending.
Agree with everything you said. We have two extreme sides of the story. What really happened was probably somewhere in between and I think the ending should have done more to show that and leave some ambiguity and question in the watchers’ mind.
Posted on 11/12/24 at 3:19 pm to dallastigers
I agree with most of this. I don’t understand why when her husband confronted her with the book she didn’t say “that’s not what happened”, same with work. She didn’t even try to defend herself. And like someone else said, how do we know her version of events is accurate?
Posted on 11/12/24 at 9:10 pm to wareaglepete
quote:
We have two extreme sides of the story. What really happened was probably somewhere in between and I think the ending should have done more to show that and leave some ambiguity and question in the watchers’ mind.
They did the rape as him being a full on psychopath. Breaking in or using forgotten key to enter without permission, the crazed behavior, threatening her with a knife, and taking coerced pictures of her while threatening her to smile. The sea stopped a future serial killer.
Should have been date rape scenario where Catherine was initially into it, but realized before sex actually started that she didn’t want it anymore and clearly communicates this to him only to have Jonathan continue and aggressively force it. Pictures should have been when she was still into it and not forced on her which would also let those particular feelings of the husband remain.
Would fit in with girlfriend issues and the father mentioning Jonathan never did anything unselfishly when wondering why he jumped in to save the kid; and after Catherine describes the changed her mind situation it would hit home for the father that it could likely be true. Maybe not seal it for him, but cause him to maybe find his son’s girlfriend and ask her what he did to her to make her return to England and other issues with them.
It would remove the whole race to hospital with murder stopped by the utterance of “mum” which seemed like a lazy way to stop Kline and have truth come out. It would also make more sense why Catherine wasn’t sure if she wanted to risk being believed and why she didn’t have evidence instead of her saying she stored sperm and took pictures of her injuries only to throw it all away. It was like well she said she had pictures and sperm at one point so that settles it we believe her.
Show was perfectly willing to take its time with all aspects of the story except for the ending.
Posted on 11/12/24 at 9:52 pm to txpurpleandgold
quote:
I agree with most of this. I don’t understand why when her husband confronted her with the book she didn’t say “that’s not what happened”, same with work. She didn’t even try to defend herself. And like someone else said, how do we know her version of events is accurate?
When her world was beginning to fall apart she continued to let everyone believe the book was an accurate portrayal of her actions. Worse she kind of implied it was accurate at times.
It was more unbelievable with how the rape was played out. Jonathan went full psycho and threatened her and Nicholas with a knife. Left physical injuries and seemingly a ton of sperm. With her story there was nothing ambiguous about the rape. It was a very violent offense by a psychopath who threatened her and the son beforehand with a knife and took trophy pictures of her. If true she could have zero doubt about situation or if she might have not communicated no or went to far herself.
Even though a slam dunk to put him jail before drowning I can still kind of see a little how she might keep it to herself but only until the book and pictures were sent to her husband, kid, and work along with the book becoming a hot topic in other circles like her favorite bookstore. The book made her out to be a cheat, a slut, a lush, irresponsible mother, and a villain, but she still initially was more ok with husband thinking all that then telling him she was actually the victim of a violent rape (but threw away all the proof which circles back to why did everyone just take her word when she finally told her side after her world collapsed).
Posted on 11/14/24 at 12:36 am to dallastigers
I don’t understand the people upset with the lack of ambiguity in the ending. This isn’t a pick your adventure kind of story - it’s meant to be fiction from one POV (the author of the novel who wrote an entire book based on pictures) and the person who actually lived it.
The “disclaimer” at the beginning of each episode had the twist/ending hiding in plain sight. I’d argue it was so obvious given that you watched 6 episodes that the trigger warning did not apply to that you were almost certain it was coming in the finale - and the real twist is actually the discovery of Nicholas in one of the photos having witnessed the whole ordeal which would explain a lot about his personality.
There is a certainly a ton to dislike (how does grandpa keep getting allowed access to ICU) and certain plot holes, but IMO AppleTV+ continues to bang out very-bingeable thriller miniseries if you are not watching weekly in real time.
The “disclaimer” at the beginning of each episode had the twist/ending hiding in plain sight. I’d argue it was so obvious given that you watched 6 episodes that the trigger warning did not apply to that you were almost certain it was coming in the finale - and the real twist is actually the discovery of Nicholas in one of the photos having witnessed the whole ordeal which would explain a lot about his personality.
There is a certainly a ton to dislike (how does grandpa keep getting allowed access to ICU) and certain plot holes, but IMO AppleTV+ continues to bang out very-bingeable thriller miniseries if you are not watching weekly in real time.
Posted on 11/14/24 at 8:03 am to dallastigers
Watching the last episode last night; here are my biggest issues outside of the neat little wrap up in the last episode:
Kid is a psycho rapist, but risks his life to go out and save this “drowning” kid? Tough to reconcile.
Some old nut just drugged you, and is now heading to hospital (see what I did there?
) to kill your kid. You make calls to and text your estranged husband (who you know is ignoring you), and grab an Uber, but you don’t think to call the hospital or police to intervene? 
Kid is a psycho rapist, but risks his life to go out and save this “drowning” kid? Tough to reconcile.
Some old nut just drugged you, and is now heading to hospital (see what I did there?
) to kill your kid. You make calls to and text your estranged husband (who you know is ignoring you), and grab an Uber, but you don’t think to call the hospital or police to intervene? 
Posted on 11/22/24 at 6:26 pm to Esquire
Was this show legit? I noticed it’s finished, and I’m looking for something new.
Posted on 11/25/24 at 2:11 pm to PhilipMarlowe
quote:
Was this show legit? I noticed it’s finished, and I’m looking for something new.
We finished it last night. I thought it was shite and there were zero characters with redeeming qualities.
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