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Message
re: Westworld S01 E09: "The Well-Tempered Clavier"
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:45 am to AceHole
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:45 am to AceHole
quote:
It will not get a second season
Higher ratings then GOT season 1.
Very highly critically reviewed.
Already renewed for season 2.
I also don't think it can even reach half of the potential GOT got to because of how complex it is but it is not going anywhere.
2
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:47 am to Mystery
It's been comical how people have said they couldn't make this storyline last more than one season when HBO specifically slated it to be GoT's successor. Obviously it can be cancelled if it sucks, but it's been far from that, ratings wise.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:48 am to guedeaux
quote:
If she is having reveries/dreams, then how are we seeing anything in the past when she is not around to see it (e.g. William and/or Logan scenes without her present)? This has been my main issue with the multiple time frames, and, in my opinion, evidence of sloppy writing. If you are going to weave this elaborate multi-time-frame story with her jumping from the present to memories, then her POV should be the only one we see from the past (regarding her/their story line).
See my post here: LINK
She has been down this loop many times - just as Teddy has been down the loop with MIB/Wyatt many times. This is evidenced by the "hostess" saying "I thought you were ready this time, but not yet." Teddy is starting to unlock his own consciousness but he hasn't fully reached the end of his maze. Once he has, the MIB/hostess will unlock his true storyline - Wyatt.
But the question is, whose narrative is this? Ford's? or MIB's?
This post was edited on 11/28/16 at 11:03 am
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:49 am to McCaigBro69
ok alot going on, but does anyone else think ford is also a host?
keep in mind he's never actually killed anyone; always had bernard do it.
what if arnold killed ford and replaced him with a host (without anyone knowing) only to have ford become 'self aware' and then have dolores kill arnold?
probably already discussed but bernard kept saying 'people like us' when talking to ford.
keep in mind he's never actually killed anyone; always had bernard do it.
what if arnold killed ford and replaced him with a host (without anyone knowing) only to have ford become 'self aware' and then have dolores kill arnold?
probably already discussed but bernard kept saying 'people like us' when talking to ford.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:50 am to Socrates Johnson
quote:
To test her memory, which he considers to be the cornerstone of consciousness?
I don't think the Maze is a physical place. More a state that Arnold was trying to get the host to. Consciousness. So maybe that is her end but other Host have to get their themselves. Also why I feel like the Host keep telling William/MiB the maze is not meant for him.
This post was edited on 11/28/16 at 10:51 am
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:55 am to CAD703X
quote:
but does anyone else think ford is also a host?
Ford has clearly aged and created Bernard who is a host of Arnold.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:01 am to Mystery
Ok so bad example is bad. My point is Bernard is a replica of Arnold. Why would Ford create another Arnold? Ford could have created the exact same being with the same brain and only a different outer appearance, but didn't for what only seems like nostalgia. Or is it Ford's way of holding a grudge over something between him and Arnold because now he's the puppet master, and Bernard (Arnold) the puppet? There was something Ford was yelling at Arnold about in the flashback/memory before it switched over to Dolores and Arnold.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:04 am to Gugich22
quote:You can say the same about Bernard. He's had that conversation in the "basement" with Ford many times. It seems that Ford is very much aware that the hosts often become self aware. Or if he's not then he should be considering all of the situations he's been in where they get to that point.
She has been down this loop many times - just as Teddy has been down the loop with MIB/Wyatt many times. This is evidenced by the "hostess" saying "I thought you were ready this time, but not yet." Teddy is starting to unlock his own consciousness but he hasn't fully reached the end of his maze. Once he has, the MIB/hostess will unlock his true storyline - Wyatt.
But the question is, whose narrative is this? Ford's? or MIB's?
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:07 am to ell_13
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:14 am to TigerstuckinMS
quote:That so many are more worried about this than just enjoying the show really ruins these threads, which have the potential to be epic based on how great this show is.
So, Bernarnold AND two timeframes. I'll just sit here and wait for apologies.
Instead, it's a 10 page thread with 9.5 pages of "I told you so"
Blah
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:14 am to jeff5891
And another question: Did Arnold really lose a son or was that just a cornerstone Ford created?
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:16 am to shel311
I was annoyed with it for a few episodes. But people dug in and you knew this would happen once one side was shown to be correct. It's over now so I'm enjoying the actual discussion.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:17 am to guedeaux
quote:I think he did. Ford talks about using a cornerstone that had basis in reality.
Did Arnold really lose a son or was that just a cornerstone Ford created?
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:20 am to guedeaux
Think the memories of Bernard's cornerstone is Ford's creation/interpretation of Arnold's real past. As if Ford knew Arnold was afflicted by such a tragic loss, so he tried best to replicate that emotional foundation in Bernard's cornerstone.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:22 am to ell_13
quote:
I think he did. Ford talks about using a cornerstone that had basis in reality.
I could be incorrect, but didn't Ford mention that Arnold thought that giving hosts a tragic backstory was more effective?
I took it as that the whole 'son dying' thing was not true in any regard.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:23 am to jeff5891
What is that?
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:25 am to BlacknGold
quote:
eta: fixed timeline to time period. everything is one timeline. the show doesnt have time travel (at least not yet). we are seeing one timeline and different periods within it.
Thank you. I don't get the whole multiple timeline discussion. First, let's define timeline: it's a single linear sequence of events that occur over time. I see no evidence of multiple timelines aka multiple alternate realities aka parallel universes. As you stated, I think what we are seeing are different time periods conveyed through flashbacks. It's complicated because hosts can theoretically represent any real person with cornerstone memories of deceased individuals like Bernard/Arnold's memory of his dying son. It's these memories that are allowing the hosts to evolve/develop real consciousness. And real consciousness/true self awareness is what the MIB is looking for within the maze that is absent in the real world.
In the scene between Dr. Ford and Bernard, Dr. Ford talks about the problem with Arnold was an obsession with creating real consciousness. And he felt that sad memories made for a more solid/passionate cornerstone foundation for the hosts as a basis for their arcs. Yet, Dr. Ford seems to be allowing these sentient hosts to persist and develop. I can only come to 1 of 2 conclusions: either the real Dr. Ford died and the current Dr. Ford was created by Arnold who in turn created Bernard/Arnold after Arnold was killed in real life by Delores or Dr. Ford is over confident that he can maintain control of a fine edge between realistic hosts and hosts who are out of control due to self awareness.
This post was edited on 11/28/16 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:32 am to NotoriousFSU
quote:
Ok so bad example is bad. My point is Bernard is a replica of Arnold. Why would Ford create another Arnold? Ford could have created the exact same being with the same brain and only a different outer appearance, but didn't for what only seems like nostalgia. Or is it Ford's way of holding a grudge over something between him and Arnold because now he's the puppet master, and Bernard (Arnold) the puppet? There was something Ford was yelling at Arnold about in the flashback/memory before it switched over to Dolores and Arnold.
I agree it is very egotistical for Ford to create the spitting image of Arnold. But this man feels he is a god. And he clearly feels he has everything under control. Watch for things to go wrong for him in the finale because he has been too ahead of the game so far.
As for why he chose that route, he seems to actually miss his friend on some level. Just as he had his family recreated he tried to do the same with his friend. You hear him state that "It is time to let go" in the last episode. Finally let go of Arnold. As you see he had been hoping Bernard would become aware and still choose to work with him on his final narrative. He stated this openly.
This also could be why he said Dolores is not his friend. She killed Arnold.
This post was edited on 11/28/16 at 11:55 am
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:35 am to Xenophon
quote:
What is that?
That was Bernard having a flashback to the "skype" session with his wife. Host see what they are supposed to see. It was actually Ford talking to him not his wife.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:40 am to NotoriousFSU
yeah but will they know who Wozniak was?
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